Excellent AAR, I'm enjoying it tremendously. Prussia's overseas escapades are particularly fun, although sacrificing 30,000 Prussians over Mexico seems a steep price to pay 
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To All: Some may have noticed that I am still commenting on AARs, despite being on Holiday. Fortunately the Hotel here in Istanbul provides a laptop and wireless connection, so that has been a god send. As I won't have several hours of reading to catch up on when I get back, and seeing I get back some time in the middle of the day, there is the possibility that I can get an update out by tomorrow evening. No promises, but hopes are warmly accepted.
ComradeOm: A Franco-American alliance, hmm that would make for a nice bit of customizing. I will give it some time for thought. As of Russia, they are as big as ever, and have troops (ableit under-funded) right down the border. I hope that in the event of war I could stop them before they reached the Elbe, and then push them back. However, their silence is somewhat ominous. No doubt I am surrounded by constant danger...
GhostWriter: So let them walk into me? Hmm, it goes against all my thesis of keeping up the offensive, but we shall see how my relations with the French fan out. As of now, they are much more powerful than me, and I intend to avoid war until I can be quite sure of a quick and crushing victory.
Helmold: True, perhaps 30,000 was to heavy a price to pay, but I now have a firm base to strike at the USA if ever the situation brought it to a head and also I have further enhanced my production of Iron and Sugar, as well as the vital supply of Precious Metals Welcome aboard.
V The King: Welcome, we don't bite.
ComradeOm: A Franco-American alliance, hmm that would make for a nice bit of customizing. I will give it some time for thought. As of Russia, they are as big as ever, and have troops (ableit under-funded) right down the border. I hope that in the event of war I could stop them before they reached the Elbe, and then push them back. However, their silence is somewhat ominous. No doubt I am surrounded by constant danger...
GhostWriter: So let them walk into me? Hmm, it goes against all my thesis of keeping up the offensive, but we shall see how my relations with the French fan out. As of now, they are much more powerful than me, and I intend to avoid war until I can be quite sure of a quick and crushing victory.
Helmold: True, perhaps 30,000 was to heavy a price to pay, but I now have a firm base to strike at the USA if ever the situation brought it to a head and also I have further enhanced my production of Iron and Sugar, as well as the vital supply of Precious Metals
Welcome aboard.V The King: Welcome, we don't bite.
robou: ...GhostWriter: So let them walk into me? Hmm, it goes against all my thesis of keeping up the offensive, but we shall see how my relations with the French fan out. As of now, they are much more powerful than me, and I intend to avoid war until I can be quite sure of a quick and crushing victory.
i am sure that you realize that i did not suggest that you try that tactic until you are ready to obtain that crushing victory ! !
personally, i think it very interesting that (IRL) the Prussians were able to receive the Dow from France rather than being the 'aggressor', especially considering the results of that conflict ! !
reminds me of something i read in the Bible (something like) : pride goeth before the fall.
on a whim, i looked it up. Proverbs 16:18. pride goeth before destruction. King James Version.
awesome AAR ! !
i am sure that you realize that i did not suggest that you try that tactic until you are ready to obtain that crushing victory ! !
personally, i think it very interesting that (IRL) the Prussians were able to receive the Dow from France rather than being the 'aggressor', especially considering the results of that conflict ! !
reminds me of something i read in the Bible (something like) : pride goeth before the fall.
on a whim, i looked it up. Proverbs 16:18. pride goeth before destruction. King James Version.
awesome AAR ! !
1841: The June Laws
Prussia was now in a golden-age after two very successful wars. The countries treasury was growing, imports were down, and the nation was at peace. True, it had avoid another war by a hairs breadth, but it had avoided it none the less. The people were as content as ever; Prussian military success only adding to the delight of their own domestic economic victories.
For each family that had lost a son or several sons* in either of the two previous wars would have a large compensation provided for them. The King himself took funds from the Royal treasury and paid each family a lump sum of 50 Thalers, and for some of the poorer sections of society which had sent their sons to war, or in the case of most had had their sons sent off to war, was more money than they had ever had in their life. General von Boyen was also given a state funeral, the first Prussian leader in recent history to fall in combat. Many people attended the service.
The economy as a whole, rather than on a personal level, was doing well out of the new exports of Gold and Sugar from Mexico, and the lesser need of iron due to conquests previously mentioned. However, the Berlin stock-market was still not florishing as many had hoped it would, and its effect on both domestic and international trade was still limmited at best. Therefore, with the bursting coffers open to offer, a team was put together to do research into Market Structure that would hopefully make Berlin one of the economic capitals of Europe. For now, though, it simply could not compete with either the reputation of Paris or the docks of London.
It was also true that the army, always a dangerous body when left with nothing to do, was not in either fighting shape or spirit. They had, as has been noted, scored many victories over the Mexicans and Austrians, but many had lost friends or brothers in doing so. Military leaders were desperate to keep the troops busy until the time when they were needed once again. Luckily for them, a team of Army Ordance cheifs had accompanied the Expedition to Mexico and had made notes. Especially during the Battle of San Luis, they had noted that the Prussian army was, while more modern in equipment, slow and lumbering compared to the Mexican troops. Infantry were slowed by the nessecity to protect the slow cannons, which often had to be pulled by hand and rope up the steep slopes of the central Mexican moutains. This often meant that Mexican skirmishers and Dragoons could ride around and pick off troops at will before Prussian officers could get their infantry into lines and fire useless and in-accurate volleys at a handful of enemies. What these men suggested was that new drill was adopted to make the Army much more mobile and quick to react. Some drills were drawn up during the war, and after a few minor changes after the army returned to Europe, they were implimented. This also freed the way for more funding to be directed at research into Market structure.
Even so, generally the mood of the nation was happy. The nation was being opened up by the entrepreneureal Railroad Companies who, with the blessing of low taxes as there was no need to raise such funds, were quickly expanding their lines. At the start of 1836, the country had only one single railroad line, the Saxony Line, linking Berlin with Magdeburg, but now this had expanded considerably. The Saxony Line had construct several miles more line, now extending down all the way to Erfurt. However, even if that Saxony Line did go through the Capital, it was by no means the longest line. The East Prussia Railroad Company (ÖPEG) had been created in 1839 and had quickly been able to fund expansion of a line from Königsberg through both East and West Prussia that ended at Berlin. From ther you could change at Berlin onto the Saxony Line and therefore travel by train all the way from Königsberg to Erfurt without leaving a train or train-station. There was also the South Posen Coal Line (SPCL) which conected the major coal works in southern Prussia to the Saxony Line, via Torgau. While this was mainly an industrial line, there were still various passenger services available. In addition to this, ÖPEG were constructing a line through Posen that would connect SPLC, and therefore the industrial and raw material wealth of Silesia, to East Prussia.
The various new Railroad Lines in Prussia
However, the success of Prussia was proving to be, even very slowly, the downfall of the rest of Germany. Many people in these countries were now being forced into abject poverty as Prussia's control over most resources in Germany, as well as the Zollverein, was destroying the economies of the other Princes. They could not compete with the sizze of Prussian export, and therefore could not supply for their nation the basic needs. As such, many people were seeking a better life. But to many of them, Prussia was not the place they wished to go. Yes, it had resources and money, but it didn't give any better freedom than the other German Princes did. What these people wanted was a say in what was happening. Swtizerland was the closest democracy, but these people also wanted somewhere that they were sure could supply them with the needs of life. When these two were put together, one place sprang to mind of most: the United States of America.
Thousands of people were leaving states such as Hanover and Mecklenburg and migrating to New York, Ohio and even the Independant Republic of Texas. Slowly, Germans were being turned into Americans, and the German states were being drained of their life-blood. Though not one of the Princes dared say a word against Prussia, King Fredrick-Wilhelm was not sitting idely by while Germany lost its people and dignity. He had been taking steps closer to democracy for years now, and for the past few month, had been, in the utmost secrecy, drawing up a constitution. It is doubtful if he was doing it for the good of Germany; rather for the security of his beloved Prussia, but either way, it would help both.
The security of Prussia was certainly not the msot certain of things. The people were happy, yes, but not with the King. The Prussian Secret Police (Preußische Geheimpolizei) had been doing undercover studies to find out what was threatening the Prussian state. The answer was just as the King had known, and feared: Liberalism. It was obvious that the Liberal wave was advancing across Europe much quicker than had been anticipated. Perhaps the combined victories of the Isabellinos in Spain and the Piratnos in Brazil, as well as stories flooding across the Atlantic of the freedom the USA gave to its citizens, had speed up the process. However, the King had never imagined it would become this dire. According to the Police study, around 40% or perhaps even as high as 50% of the population had Liberal leanings. It would not be long before they became discontented by the fact that the Reichstag was formed from a single Conserative Party that was completely picked by the King. The King knew this full-well and had made the preperations.
It was decided between him and a handful of his closest advisors, mostly family, that on June 2nd, Prussia would announce to the world that it was adopting a new constitution. Within a week, the day had arrived. It was met with mixed feelings from around the world. The Russians gave no comment, but everyone knew that relations with the most Autrocratic regieme in the world would suffer. France acctually sent a letter of congratulations on Prussia finally entering the modern world. It was unknown if it was intended as an insult or not. However, the nations of Sweden and Great Britain sent their warmest regards. Prussia, at least, could now know who to count on in the Old World. THe USA, similarly, was also somewhat more happy with the Prussian regieme, but the effect was not as great as some had hoped for. All this, and the actual terms of the constitution had not yet been annouced.
It would take the rest of June to finish writing the constitution, copying it to parchment, and proof reading the 68 page works. But on July 1st, the scroll was carried through the streets of Berlin to the Reichstag building where the King and the newly elected temporary Chancellor of the Reichstag would sign it.
The new Constitution is adopted
The constitution stated several key points, as well as some others that need not be covered yet, that need to be stated:
1) The Reichstag would be formed of two houses. The first, and lower, house would be the Landtag. This is the house of 500 representatives that were selected by the public voters. Most descision would first have to go through the Landtag before they were verified by the higher house; the House of Lords. The House of Lords is to be a group of 50 Junkers (Nobles) selected by the King himself. They would also act as the King's advisors.
2) The King has the right to overrule any choice made by either house, if he so desires. The King is still the supreme ruler of Prussia and exercises all power and authority as the position dictates. All ministers of both houses answer only to him.
3) The Public voters, who elect the members of the Landtag, must have a wealth, in land or in funds, of 321 Thalers or over. At every election, if the person of this owning wishes to take part in the voting, he must pay a fee of 1 Thaler.
4) The First Minister; the Chancellor, is the leading member of the largest party in the Landtag, and is the King's highest advisor. He is automatically the 50th Member of the House of Lords.
Therefore, the King had made the constitution as such that he still had ultimate power, and the Landtag had very little. Only the implimentation of economic policies could be done without the need for a vote through the House of Lords. This meant that the whole procedure of government would basiclly give the King an advisor. At least that was how it was intended. There was one law that gave the Landtag the power it did deserve, though: If a vote of over 65% of the Landtag could be found, any decision by made by the House of Lords, and hence in most circumstances the King, could be vetoed. Adolf Heinrich von Arnim-Boitzenburg was selected as first, and temporary, Chancellor until then first elections could be carried out. This set of huge reforms was called the 'June Laws'.
Notes:
*This was only a few rare cases and the family was given compensation for only a single son lost.
Prussia was now in a golden-age after two very successful wars. The countries treasury was growing, imports were down, and the nation was at peace. True, it had avoid another war by a hairs breadth, but it had avoided it none the less. The people were as content as ever; Prussian military success only adding to the delight of their own domestic economic victories.
For each family that had lost a son or several sons* in either of the two previous wars would have a large compensation provided for them. The King himself took funds from the Royal treasury and paid each family a lump sum of 50 Thalers, and for some of the poorer sections of society which had sent their sons to war, or in the case of most had had their sons sent off to war, was more money than they had ever had in their life. General von Boyen was also given a state funeral, the first Prussian leader in recent history to fall in combat. Many people attended the service.
The economy as a whole, rather than on a personal level, was doing well out of the new exports of Gold and Sugar from Mexico, and the lesser need of iron due to conquests previously mentioned. However, the Berlin stock-market was still not florishing as many had hoped it would, and its effect on both domestic and international trade was still limmited at best. Therefore, with the bursting coffers open to offer, a team was put together to do research into Market Structure that would hopefully make Berlin one of the economic capitals of Europe. For now, though, it simply could not compete with either the reputation of Paris or the docks of London.
It was also true that the army, always a dangerous body when left with nothing to do, was not in either fighting shape or spirit. They had, as has been noted, scored many victories over the Mexicans and Austrians, but many had lost friends or brothers in doing so. Military leaders were desperate to keep the troops busy until the time when they were needed once again. Luckily for them, a team of Army Ordance cheifs had accompanied the Expedition to Mexico and had made notes. Especially during the Battle of San Luis, they had noted that the Prussian army was, while more modern in equipment, slow and lumbering compared to the Mexican troops. Infantry were slowed by the nessecity to protect the slow cannons, which often had to be pulled by hand and rope up the steep slopes of the central Mexican moutains. This often meant that Mexican skirmishers and Dragoons could ride around and pick off troops at will before Prussian officers could get their infantry into lines and fire useless and in-accurate volleys at a handful of enemies. What these men suggested was that new drill was adopted to make the Army much more mobile and quick to react. Some drills were drawn up during the war, and after a few minor changes after the army returned to Europe, they were implimented. This also freed the way for more funding to be directed at research into Market structure.
Even so, generally the mood of the nation was happy. The nation was being opened up by the entrepreneureal Railroad Companies who, with the blessing of low taxes as there was no need to raise such funds, were quickly expanding their lines. At the start of 1836, the country had only one single railroad line, the Saxony Line, linking Berlin with Magdeburg, but now this had expanded considerably. The Saxony Line had construct several miles more line, now extending down all the way to Erfurt. However, even if that Saxony Line did go through the Capital, it was by no means the longest line. The East Prussia Railroad Company (ÖPEG) had been created in 1839 and had quickly been able to fund expansion of a line from Königsberg through both East and West Prussia that ended at Berlin. From ther you could change at Berlin onto the Saxony Line and therefore travel by train all the way from Königsberg to Erfurt without leaving a train or train-station. There was also the South Posen Coal Line (SPCL) which conected the major coal works in southern Prussia to the Saxony Line, via Torgau. While this was mainly an industrial line, there were still various passenger services available. In addition to this, ÖPEG were constructing a line through Posen that would connect SPLC, and therefore the industrial and raw material wealth of Silesia, to East Prussia.
The various new Railroad Lines in Prussia
However, the success of Prussia was proving to be, even very slowly, the downfall of the rest of Germany. Many people in these countries were now being forced into abject poverty as Prussia's control over most resources in Germany, as well as the Zollverein, was destroying the economies of the other Princes. They could not compete with the sizze of Prussian export, and therefore could not supply for their nation the basic needs. As such, many people were seeking a better life. But to many of them, Prussia was not the place they wished to go. Yes, it had resources and money, but it didn't give any better freedom than the other German Princes did. What these people wanted was a say in what was happening. Swtizerland was the closest democracy, but these people also wanted somewhere that they were sure could supply them with the needs of life. When these two were put together, one place sprang to mind of most: the United States of America.
Thousands of people were leaving states such as Hanover and Mecklenburg and migrating to New York, Ohio and even the Independant Republic of Texas. Slowly, Germans were being turned into Americans, and the German states were being drained of their life-blood. Though not one of the Princes dared say a word against Prussia, King Fredrick-Wilhelm was not sitting idely by while Germany lost its people and dignity. He had been taking steps closer to democracy for years now, and for the past few month, had been, in the utmost secrecy, drawing up a constitution. It is doubtful if he was doing it for the good of Germany; rather for the security of his beloved Prussia, but either way, it would help both.
The security of Prussia was certainly not the msot certain of things. The people were happy, yes, but not with the King. The Prussian Secret Police (Preußische Geheimpolizei) had been doing undercover studies to find out what was threatening the Prussian state. The answer was just as the King had known, and feared: Liberalism. It was obvious that the Liberal wave was advancing across Europe much quicker than had been anticipated. Perhaps the combined victories of the Isabellinos in Spain and the Piratnos in Brazil, as well as stories flooding across the Atlantic of the freedom the USA gave to its citizens, had speed up the process. However, the King had never imagined it would become this dire. According to the Police study, around 40% or perhaps even as high as 50% of the population had Liberal leanings. It would not be long before they became discontented by the fact that the Reichstag was formed from a single Conserative Party that was completely picked by the King. The King knew this full-well and had made the preperations.
It was decided between him and a handful of his closest advisors, mostly family, that on June 2nd, Prussia would announce to the world that it was adopting a new constitution. Within a week, the day had arrived. It was met with mixed feelings from around the world. The Russians gave no comment, but everyone knew that relations with the most Autrocratic regieme in the world would suffer. France acctually sent a letter of congratulations on Prussia finally entering the modern world. It was unknown if it was intended as an insult or not. However, the nations of Sweden and Great Britain sent their warmest regards. Prussia, at least, could now know who to count on in the Old World. THe USA, similarly, was also somewhat more happy with the Prussian regieme, but the effect was not as great as some had hoped for. All this, and the actual terms of the constitution had not yet been annouced.
It would take the rest of June to finish writing the constitution, copying it to parchment, and proof reading the 68 page works. But on July 1st, the scroll was carried through the streets of Berlin to the Reichstag building where the King and the newly elected temporary Chancellor of the Reichstag would sign it.
The new Constitution is adopted
The constitution stated several key points, as well as some others that need not be covered yet, that need to be stated:
1) The Reichstag would be formed of two houses. The first, and lower, house would be the Landtag. This is the house of 500 representatives that were selected by the public voters. Most descision would first have to go through the Landtag before they were verified by the higher house; the House of Lords. The House of Lords is to be a group of 50 Junkers (Nobles) selected by the King himself. They would also act as the King's advisors.
2) The King has the right to overrule any choice made by either house, if he so desires. The King is still the supreme ruler of Prussia and exercises all power and authority as the position dictates. All ministers of both houses answer only to him.
3) The Public voters, who elect the members of the Landtag, must have a wealth, in land or in funds, of 321 Thalers or over. At every election, if the person of this owning wishes to take part in the voting, he must pay a fee of 1 Thaler.
4) The First Minister; the Chancellor, is the leading member of the largest party in the Landtag, and is the King's highest advisor. He is automatically the 50th Member of the House of Lords.
Therefore, the King had made the constitution as such that he still had ultimate power, and the Landtag had very little. Only the implimentation of economic policies could be done without the need for a vote through the House of Lords. This meant that the whole procedure of government would basiclly give the King an advisor. At least that was how it was intended. There was one law that gave the Landtag the power it did deserve, though: If a vote of over 65% of the Landtag could be found, any decision by made by the House of Lords, and hence in most circumstances the King, could be vetoed. Adolf Heinrich von Arnim-Boitzenburg was selected as first, and temporary, Chancellor until then first elections could be carried out. This set of huge reforms was called the 'June Laws'.
Notes:
*This was only a few rare cases and the family was given compensation for only a single son lost.
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To All: I have no idea if that Update accutally made any sense, especially the last bit about the main points of the constitution. I was toiling over it for quite a while, but I hope it is ok and understandable... if it isn't please state so. Sorry i couldn't get this out yesterday, flight delays destroyed that chance.
GhostWriter: Lets hope I am ready soon enough then
GhostWriter: Lets hope I am ready soon enough then
Won'y giving so much cash to poors cause some inflation?
And is that Ost-Preusische-Eisenbahn-Gesellschaft?
Ah well, constitution surely has some new effects, but they shall remain unknown yet.
Where is Bismarck`?
And is that Ost-Preusische-Eisenbahn-Gesellschaft?
Ah well, constitution surely has some new effects, but they shall remain unknown yet.
Where is Bismarck`?
Liberalism is not something to easily control and the Junkers and agrarian lobby will not be happy having their traditional power structures undermined. Perhaps the greatest threat to Prussia lies from within...
That said of course historically Prussian foreign policy of the era could be summed up as 'agree with Russia'. Clearly that is no longer possible
That said of course historically Prussian foreign policy of the era could be summed up as 'agree with Russia'. Clearly that is no longer possible
wow, very important event.
A constitution is very important, maybe it will help draw those immigrants back after they see how horrible the united states is. Though still the king has ultimate power so I don't know how people will react.
A constitution is very important, maybe it will help draw those immigrants back after they see how horrible the united states is. Though still the king has ultimate power so I don't know how people will react.
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A liberal constitution? Curse you, inexorable historical progress!
Time to divert attention from domestic issues by warring abroad, perhaps?
Curse you, inexorable historical progress!Time to divert attention from domestic issues by warring abroad, perhaps?
robou: Prussia was now in a golden-age after two very successful wars.
splendid ! !
robou: ...For each family that had lost a son or several sons* in either of the two previous wars would have a large compensation provided for them.
is this a game event ? ? :wondering:
robou: ...The constitution stated several key points...
so, does this head off the liberal 'rebellions' ? ?
robou: ...This set of huge reforms was called the 'June Laws'.
did you modify the constitution events ? ?
awesome update ! !
robou: ...GhostWriter: Lets hope I am ready soon enough then
actually, i was referring to the French IRL ! ! ::sadly::
splendid ! !
robou: ...For each family that had lost a son or several sons* in either of the two previous wars would have a large compensation provided for them.
is this a game event ? ? :wondering:
robou: ...The constitution stated several key points...
so, does this head off the liberal 'rebellions' ? ?
robou: ...This set of huge reforms was called the 'June Laws'.
did you modify the constitution events ? ?
awesome update ! !
robou: ...GhostWriter: Lets hope I am ready soon enough then
actually, i was referring to the French IRL ! ! ::sadly::
Now that had me laughing :rofl:Helmold said:A liberal constitution?
Well, hasn't politics always been about trying to make the people believe they actually have a say in things, while at the same time ensuring yourself a free hand to govern the country as you please? At least, that might be an explanation for the 'easy-to-read, understandable-to-a-child, deeply-logical and absolutely-fair' laws and edicts, all governments seem so fond of producing.. or something..
I mean.. You have to have a very long and extremely complicated education to merely understand the bloody language, they use in those things.. Not to mention actually knowing what it means.. And still, the common people, with no such understanding, are subject to these laws. And not knowing and/or understanding any part of the law does not pardon you, in any way, from being punishable.. The least they could do was try to make them understandable.. no? But then again, if they did that, we might discover the truth about all these laws.. That their only real purpose is to give us headaches and simply accept what they tell us to be in there, instead of trying to find out for ourselves...
And now you know why people tend to call me cynical..
I of course, call those same people naive..
Excellent update, my friend.. As always..
Edit: As a less serious addition, I once wondered whether or not that might be one of the reasons, why 'democratically' elected leaders rave so much against dictators.. At least the latter tends to be less circumspect about exploiting the people and being corrupt to boot.. And that might make the former's people glance a second time at their own oh so moral and just leaders? .. But luckily, someone suggested therapy at that point..
I mean.. You have to have a very long and extremely complicated education to merely understand the bloody language, they use in those things.. Not to mention actually knowing what it means.. And still, the common people, with no such understanding, are subject to these laws. And not knowing and/or understanding any part of the law does not pardon you, in any way, from being punishable.. The least they could do was try to make them understandable.. no? But then again, if they did that, we might discover the truth about all these laws.. That their only real purpose is to give us headaches and simply accept what they tell us to be in there, instead of trying to find out for ourselves...
And now you know why people tend to call me cynical..
I of course, call those same people naive..
Excellent update, my friend.. As always..
Edit: As a less serious addition, I once wondered whether or not that might be one of the reasons, why 'democratically' elected leaders rave so much against dictators.. At least the latter tends to be less circumspect about exploiting the people and being corrupt to boot.. And that might make the former's people glance a second time at their own oh so moral and just leaders? .. But luckily, someone suggested therapy at that point..
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Excellent AAR. By far one of the most interesting I've read. The historical and diplomatic analysis is a great idea, and I may use it myself, if you don't object. The only thing is the background for Russia was a little incorrect. While indeed Russian strength turned out to be superficial, Russia had huge prestige and was regarded by everyone as the guarantor of anit-liberal Europe, lurking in the shadows to the east along the confines of Europe ever ready to send it's hordes to stamp out revolution. Indeed Russia crushed the Hungarians and was seen by the Balkan Slavs as their Big Brother who would shield them from the Turks. So Russia was feared by all powers, especially Austria and Prussia, who had no desire to provoke her, in fact, liberal Prussia came crashing down because Nicholas I sent Frederick William a disapproving note.
Hopefully this time, things will be different.Selim Yavuz said:
The Prussians IMO should liberate Poland or give a load of Russian territories to Krakow so the "Form Poland" event fires and you get a nice buffer zone between Russia and the German states.
Also Prussia needs to show Europe it can defend against the ottoman hordes. Thus a bit of colonial activity in Persia might be called for.
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I couldn't agree more. Though historically Bismarck clung to Russia throughout the period by holding down Poland in conjuction with the Russians. But hey, what's this game for? To change history to suit your own desires, so I say go for it.
I am not entirely certain that Prussia would want an independent Poland, even as a buffer against Russia.. The natural resources, manpower, labour and so forth seems simply too large a possible loss, to make it feasible.. Not to mention what it would do to Prussian prestige, something which must be harnessed and protected in these uncertain times..
As Selim Yavuz put it about Russia, prestige is a very powerful tool, not only in this time period, but throughout history.. The image of strength and power is sometimes as powerful and often far more important than the actual thing.. So I am not entirely sure the Prussians could actually afford such a move, as it would scream weakness to the world and possibly bring in the wolves, so to speak..
One thought is of course, that such a move would highly destabilize Austria.. (perhaps not in the Game Mechanics, but story wise), as it would cause the various ethnic factions under Austrian and even Russian rule to cry out for freedom of their own.. Of course, judging by typical Russian politics, it might just bring them to annex the new Poland and then you'd be right back to square one, albeit with a far weaker Prussia..
*shrugs* At least that's how I see it..
As Selim Yavuz put it about Russia, prestige is a very powerful tool, not only in this time period, but throughout history.. The image of strength and power is sometimes as powerful and often far more important than the actual thing.. So I am not entirely sure the Prussians could actually afford such a move, as it would scream weakness to the world and possibly bring in the wolves, so to speak..
One thought is of course, that such a move would highly destabilize Austria.. (perhaps not in the Game Mechanics, but story wise), as it would cause the various ethnic factions under Austrian and even Russian rule to cry out for freedom of their own.. Of course, judging by typical Russian politics, it might just bring them to annex the new Poland and then you'd be right back to square one, albeit with a far weaker Prussia..
*shrugs* At least that's how I see it..
To All: Apologies for the lack of an update... school has started again and time is a little more constricted than before. Should have one ready tonight or tomorrow. Thank you, as ever, for your patience.
Enewald: It is only a small portion of the population; not everyone lost a son. As for the railroads, I can't speak much German so thank you for the correction. And Bismarck? We shall see...
ComradeOm: Certainly, most conservatives are not happy to even think of having the possibility of Liberals coming too power... but it was a peaceful outside chance, or a much more probable and violent liberal acendency. As for Russia, we each look our own ways now. The bear is no longer a friend.
comagoosie: No one is likely to come back, but at least I will have curbed emigration before it could take too large an effect on my population growth. That said, I can't ensure I will have no one emigrating.
Helmold: Perhaps this is the end of the historical progress in Germany... I can't promise anything from now on.
GhostWriter: The first was just for flavour, a picture of how well the Prussians economy was doing being able to pay compensation. Unless I get something very wrong, the Liberals should now be happy enough. But as I am a Constitutional Monarchy now, the 'Liberal Revolutions' events won't fire. They raise militancy for Liberals so that most start revolting on a regular basis for about five years. If you are a democracy or Con Mon then they don't fire, which is a bonus I didn't modify the events, it was just a more interesting name.
Doge Robert: Indeed, I would agree with you. The way this is going to be played out, it will work in that way for the time being, as we will find out in the next update which will cover the first elections. It will show just how the King wants his new system to work.
Selim Yavuz: The section on Russia was purely based on the stats of Russia at the start, and 15 Prestige is quite low. Russia has also taken quite a quiet backstage veiw of everything for now, and has seemed to want to keep out of things. Lets hope it stays that way.
Eöl, Selim Yavuz, Doge Robert: A liberated Poland is not something I have considered. With my policies so in favour of pacification, I don't feel I can go back on it. And anyway, why would I? A Polish Buffer state would only be useful in one case scenario: that Russia is too powerful for me too beat, something which I intend to make sure never happens. For now, Poland is on my list for somewhere I would like to conquer, but not high up. The provinces are populous so I am not going to give them away...
Enewald: It is only a small portion of the population; not everyone lost a son. As for the railroads, I can't speak much German so thank you for the correction. And Bismarck? We shall see...
ComradeOm: Certainly, most conservatives are not happy to even think of having the possibility of Liberals coming too power... but it was a peaceful outside chance, or a much more probable and violent liberal acendency. As for Russia, we each look our own ways now. The bear is no longer a friend.
comagoosie: No one is likely to come back, but at least I will have curbed emigration before it could take too large an effect on my population growth. That said, I can't ensure I will have no one emigrating.
Helmold: Perhaps this is the end of the historical progress in Germany... I can't promise anything from now on.
GhostWriter: The first was just for flavour, a picture of how well the Prussians economy was doing being able to pay compensation. Unless I get something very wrong, the Liberals should now be happy enough. But as I am a Constitutional Monarchy now, the 'Liberal Revolutions' events won't fire. They raise militancy for Liberals so that most start revolting on a regular basis for about five years. If you are a democracy or Con Mon then they don't fire, which is a bonus
I didn't modify the events, it was just a more interesting name. Doge Robert: Indeed, I would agree with you. The way this is going to be played out, it will work in that way for the time being, as we will find out in the next update which will cover the first elections. It will show just how the King wants his new system to work.
Selim Yavuz: The section on Russia was purely based on the stats of Russia at the start, and 15 Prestige is quite low. Russia has also taken quite a quiet backstage veiw of everything for now, and has seemed to want to keep out of things. Lets hope it stays that way.
Eöl, Selim Yavuz, Doge Robert: A liberated Poland is not something I have considered. With my policies so in favour of pacification, I don't feel I can go back on it. And anyway, why would I? A Polish Buffer state would only be useful in one case scenario: that Russia is too powerful for me too beat, something which I intend to make sure never happens. For now, Poland is on my list for somewhere I would like to conquer, but not high up. The provinces are populous so I am not going to give them away...
Heh, just to defend the buffer state idea a bit.
While I don't think Prussia should give back its rich hard earned territories perhaps some of the more poor and mediocre from ones from Austria and Russia could be turned over to Krakow?
So far they’ve been a useful ally and well… you’re better safe than sorry.
Still its up to you and I can see why you wouldn’t want to.
While I don't think Prussia should give back its rich hard earned territories perhaps some of the more poor and mediocre from ones from Austria and Russia could be turned over to Krakow?
So far they’ve been a useful ally and well… you’re better safe than sorry.
Still its up to you and I can see why you wouldn’t want to.
Good. Poland isn't a great place to own, non-nat culture and all, but with so many POPs it's still a cash cow.