Career Mode without Ironman

[Deathdealer 6]

I guess I am just a casual player, but Ironman mode does not interest me.

I have really enjoyed this new career mode. It is a different challenge than the campaign. Without the Ironman provisions, it still feels difficult to build up your mercenary company and even a single bad mission can ruin your unit. I have nearly maxed out my reputation with Fed Suns at the expense of Taurian rep. I have made a couple improvements to the Argo. I managed to salvage a complete Orion. That has really strengthened my lance along with a Vindicator with a PPC+, a Jenner, and a Panther.

Are there other players out there who have been playing career mode without Ironman? Do you still find it challenging or too easy?

 

[GridLink]

I'm playing without Ironman for my first run through Career mode (just in case of bugs or issues like that) and I am finding that even generally being successful at missions can still leave you feeling on the edge of your company going broke (I've had at least two times when I was 1 month away from going broke), and I've had to push for missions I wouldn't dream of tackling normally to hang on.

 

[Unruly Marmite]

I'm playing without Ironman and I'm finding it a mix so far. Only done two missions but considering that on the first the AI hit every shot and both my Jenner and the Crab I'd modded in to replace the Vindicator got crippled it's more of a challenge than the campaign. Only time will tell now though, since the second mission only two Lights showed and my three man lance could take them.

 

[Edmon]

I'll let you in on a little secret here,

I don't believe Ironman makes a game harder or makes you a better player. The time I spend in practise taking on missions that are WAY too hard, over and over, is far more important to my skill development than my actual recorded Ironman campaigns. It is in my non-Ironman campaigns which no-one ever sees, that I truly test my skills.

You can have a far harder game without Ironman, because you are more willing to try far more difficult challenges and you can learn a lot from doing so. Then after your done, win or lose you can reload and practise some more. When Ironman is on, you only do this when you don't care anymore and thus losses don't matter.

What Ironman really does is make you play safe. Accepting only missions you know you can win, until you've got so many resources at your disposal you don't care about losses.

I personnally never save + load *during* a mission, even without Ironman, so the whole "it prevents save scumming" argument is out the window anyway. If you have zero willpower and find yourself saving and reloading during missions, then I guess Ironman can be helpful... I very much am trapped in the old mindset of the post-gone gaming era... that each "match" is the game, in which you should never save/load and saving before/after is just whatever and a time saver. Of course, most older era games didn't allow saving during "matches" anyway, so you couldn't do it even if you wanted to.

Ironman in older games, like Jagged Alliance, disabled saving during a fight but still allowed it before and after... which was originally why the concept was introduced in the first place, once saving during matches became possible... but that's a boring history lesson I guess? XD

Just my thoughts .

 

[stjobe]

Ironman is just a toggle to keep you "honest" - it's not an indication of skill, nor is it "the way" to play the game. I never played Ironman in any of my many campaign play-throughs, and I don't think playing Ironman should be held as the "gold standard" of how to play BATTLETECH. Play the way you want, it's no skin off anyone else's nose.

Especially for those with flaky Internet or computers prone to crashing, Ironman can be downright counter-productive to enjoyment. Not to mention bugs - I got bit by the "let's put expenses on Extravagant without giving you any morale gain for it" bug in my current career, and it almost broke it. Luckily, I had enough C-Bills to make it to the next month anyway, but that bug right there is one that can kill a career outright. And that's the antithesis of fun.

So again, play the way you want, and don't let anyone else tell you you're having fun wrong

 

[mjbroekman]

Agreed. Ironman is more of a "save management" toggle than a difficulty mode. All it does is keep you to a single save file. Nothing more, nothing less.

Saves are generated at:

• After Financial Reports
• After Event Resolutions
• Before you drop on a contract
  
• After you get back to the Argo from confirming salvage
  
• When quitting the sim (Quit to Desktop / Main Menu)

As a result, you can "game the Ironman" by Alt-F4 if something went wrong (AI got a lucky head shot, made a mistake and can't complete a mission, whatever).

But Ironman doesn't make the game harder.

 

[Edmon]

As a result, you can "game the Ironman" by Alt-F4 if something went wrong (AI got a lucky head shot, made a mistake and can't complete a mission, whatever).

"Now viewers, this is where I alt-F4 out of the game and reload to try again...this is an important skill to have sometimes in a game like this..."

XD.

 

[mjbroekman]

"Now viewers, this is where I alt-F4 out of the game and reload to try again...this is an important skill to have sometimes in a game like this..."

XD.

Heh. I was merely pointing out that Ironman is not a "continuous save" where choices are immutable, but rather that it's just a save management mechanic that can be "circumvented"

But yes... Alt-F4 is an important skill to have.

 

[UncleGamer]

I play Ironman because it does make you play safe. That is for me, more immersive. A real merc commander will not risk assets without a decent chance of return. He will develop skills to minimize risk, even as it increases. He will fight for missions when he needs to pay the bills or there is some amazing gain in it for him, he will then push the envelope.

I tend to play Ironman in all my games because of that immersion.

 

[jj284b]

Ironman is a trap with certain flashpoints, where you dont know what you are signing up for... like for example if second deployment requires you to deploy light mechs you dont have...

 

[UncleGamer]

Ironman is a trap with certain flashpoints, where you dont know what you are signing up for... like for example if second deployment requires you to deploy light mechs you dont have...

That sounds like either a fix is needed at the from on the mission to ensure you have the needed assets or as a merc you need to keep a decent mix of mechs to ensure your ready for any assignment.

 

[mjbroekman]

Ironman is a trap with certain flashpoints, where you dont know what you are signing up for... like for example if second deployment requires you to deploy light mechs you dont have...

Not sure how that makes Ironman a "trap". If you don't read the Flashpoint info and have the appropriate mechs to meet them, that's not Ironman's fault. Also, even after you hit 'Begin' on the Flashpoint screen, you aren't forced to immediately take the first mission. The only "forced" missions are the consecutive drops...and it's clearly indicated on the Flashpoint whether there are consecutive drops or not.

It may be that the warning icon needs to be more obvious (or clearer in meaning), but that's not an Ironman issue.

 

[Deathdealer 6]

I play Ironman because it does make you play safe. That is for me, more immersive. A real merc commander will not risk assets without a decent chance of return. He will develop skills to minimize risk, even as it increases. He will fight for missions when he needs to pay the bills or there is some amazing gain in it for him, he will then push the envelope.

I tend to play Ironman in all my games because of that immersion.

I guess it is how you appoach the game. I tend to play very conservative without being in Ironman mode. I like the lore, fluff, background, history, et al of the Battletech universe. I hsve played tabletop Battletech since the 80s. I ran a mercenary campaign which met 2 nights a week for 18 months with dozens of players. So, when I play Battletech here, I like to put myself in what I think would be the mindset of a mercenary commander who has to be conservative and prudent to survive and thrive; however, also have the boldness and daring of a great cavalry commander who knows when to roll the dice to exploit an opportunity after doing his best to set the conditions for his unit's success.

 

[UncleGamer]

Deathdealer, the addition of Ironman, for me, takes the play style you mentioned and adds consequences and suspense. If you make a stupid decision you pay for it, no do over. If you choose to fight to the end and are trying to stay alive but still meet the objective then to me having a real consequence for each decision makes the game way more fun becuase a win now means it was something special and I did not press my luck because I had an easy retry if I fail. I need to get it right the first time

 

[Edmon]

Deathdealer, the addition of Ironman, for me, takes the play style you mentioned and adds consequences and suspense. If you make a stupid decision you pay for it, no do over. If you choose to fight to the end and are trying to stay alive but still meet the objective then to me having a real consequence for each decision makes the game way more fun becuase a win now means it was something special and I did not press my luck because I had an easy retry if I fail. I need to get it right the first time

I just find, as a counter point to this... if you have a lance that's capable of winning a 1 skull engagement and you see a 4 skull mission. The correct response with Ironman on is to not to bother trying. But without it, you can take on an impossible mission "just to see" how much you might be able to do on skills and prayer alone. These are the missions that most challenge me and are the most fun, even if I lose 80% of them. I would never take such a mission on Ironman/recorded. It's a whole aspect of the game you'll never get to enjoy because you can't throw away a lance for fun/challenge in Ironman, you must play safe for incremental gains.

 

[mjbroekman]

I just find, as a counter point to this... if you have a lance that's capable of winning a 1 skull engagement and you see a 4 skull mission. The correct response with Ironman on is to not to bother trying. But without it, you can take on an impossible mission "just to see" how much you might be able to do on skills and prayer alone. These are the missions that most challenge me and are the most fun, even if I lose 80% of them. I would never take such a mission on Ironman/recorded. It's a whole aspect of the game you'll never get to enjoy because you can't throw away a lance for fun/challenge in Ironman, you must play safe for incremental gains.

Yes and no. In Career Mode, there is the chance for big rewards by taking those challenges as it means earlier access to heavier mechs and, as a result, faster progression in scoring in a number of metrics:

• Contracts == Based on the number of SKULLS of the contracts completed
• C-Bills == Tougher contracts often give more rewards
• Mech Chassis == The earlier you get heavier mechs, the faster you can collect the chassises.
• Reputation == Tougher contracts give better reputation rewards

So yes, Ironman encourages more cautious play because a mistake can doom you, but Career Mode encourages daring play if you want to get the best ending score. I can tell you that, having completed a 1200-day Career already, it's HARD to get a high score. I played 3parts, EQUIPPED mechs, and normal everything else and I barely made it over 50% of the max possible score. I barely got over 10% of the cbill reward. I wouldn't say I was playing cautiously, but I was playing "smart"(ish). I probably spent too much time in transit to experience Flashpoints (instead of grinding contracts) also, but it was surprising to me that I was at a point where I had a full assault lance (along with every Light, Medium, and Heavy mech) but my score was barely 50% max.

 

[Edmon]

Yes and no. In Career Mode, there is the chance for big rewards by taking those challenges as it means earlier access to heavier mechs and, as a result, faster progression in scoring in a number of metrics:

• Contracts == Based on the number of SKULLS of the contracts completed
• C-Bills == Tougher contracts often give more rewards
• Mech Chassis == The earlier you get heavier mechs, the faster you can collect the chassises.
• Reputation == Tougher contracts give better reputation rewards

So yes, Ironman encourages more cautious play because a mistake can doom you, but Career Mode encourages daring play if you want to get the best ending score. I can tell you that, having completed a 1200-day Career already, it's HARD to get a high score. I played 3parts, EQUIPPED mechs, and normal everything else and I barely made it over 50% of the max possible score. I barely got over 10% of the cbill reward. I wouldn't say I was playing cautiously, but I was playing "smart"(ish). I probably spent too much time in transit to experience Flashpoints (instead of grinding contracts) also, but it was surprising to me that I was at a point where I had a full assault lance (along with every Light, Medium, and Heavy mech) but my score was barely 50% max.

Right, but your still not about to take on a 4 skull mission with a 1 skull lance...

You aren't about to take any mission you have less than a 10% chance of winning, on Ironman.

Being able to save gives you the freedom to do insane things for fun. You won't make a profit even if you win, but that's not the point. I often do it just to see if it can be done, considering surviving with 1 crippled mech as a victory. But in Ironman, that'd never be a victory, even at that kind of "best possible result".

This is what I mean. I do enjoy extreme challenge though, so I may be somewhat alone here...

 

[EmptyPepsiCan]

I'm not up for full-on Ironman, but I also think that reloading every time there's a minor mishap trivializes the game. I go with a self-directed Honestman approach using willpower rather than save settings to keep things challenging.

 

[jj284b]

Not sure how that makes Ironman a "trap". If you don't read the Flashpoint info and have the appropriate mechs to meet them, that's not Ironman's fault. Also, even after you hit 'Begin' on the Flashpoint screen, you aren't forced to immediately take the first mission. The only "forced" missions are the consecutive drops...and it's clearly indicated on the Flashpoint whether there are consecutive drops or not.

It may be that the warning icon needs to be more obvious (or clearer in meaning), but that's not an Ironman issue.

Its a trap because mission before you had to deploy 4 50ton mechs against 4 heavies (Thunderbolt, OrionV, Orion K, Black Knight) and 4 heavy PPC/AC2 turrets... and when you complete it, then immediately you need to drop again with 4x 50ton light mechs.... good luck with that... I actually managed it somehow, losing 2 mechs in the process as opfor was again 2 heavies, 2 Assaults, 2 Demolishers and 2 SRM carriers.... Mind you - that Flashpoint is marked as 4.5 skulls...


Btw, 4x 50Ton mechs.. thats 2 Stars.... vs 4.5skull Opfor... you are not allowed to drop anything larger in two consecutive missions without repair... But I guess you commonly have let say 6 50ton mechs in your mechbay laying around? I didnt..

 

[mjbroekman]

Its a trap because mission before you had to deploy 4 50ton mechs against 4 heavies (Thunderbolt, OrionV, Orion K, Black Knight) and 4 heavy PPC/AC2 turrets... and when you complete it, then immediately you need to drop again with 4x 50ton light mechs.... good luck with that... I actually managed it somehow, losing 2 mechs in the process as opfor was again 2 heavies, 2 Assaults, 2 Demolishers and 2 SRM carriers.... Mind you - that Flashpoint is marked as 4.5 skulls...

Btw, 4x 50Ton mechs.. thats 2 Stars.... vs 4.5skull Opfor... you are not allowed to drop anything larger in two consecutive missions without repair... But I guess you commonly have let say 6 50ton mechs in your mechbay laying around? I didnt..

Interesting. Out of curiosity, which Flashpoint was that? I'd be curious to see that Flashpoint for myself. I've only run into three Flashpoints that claimed to be weight restricted and on two of them there were decisions that allowed me to ignore the weight restriction. And the third, I had no problem meeting the weight restriction and cleaning up the OpFor without internal damage.