Capturing the Caliph Worth Next to Nothing in Crusade Contribution?

[Crater122]

The Pope called for a crusade for Jerusalem. I sent troops when I could, but I was busy keeping the balance of power on Iberia as Aragon. Anyway, I finally finish my set of wars over there and fully commit to the crusade. Just before the final battle of the crusade, I was third in terms of contribution, with about 18% to England's 19% and France's 26%. Then, I captured the Caliph in battle. I figured that capturing the leader of the crusade target would give me a huge boost in contribution, but when I checked, I still had less than 19%. Jerusalem ended up going to France. Should capturing the Caliph not give a major increase in crusade contribution, considering it results in an auto-win?

 

[DisgruntledLemming]

Wait, so is this the caliph of the Seljuks, who is not the Sultan? Or the Caliph of the Fatimids, who is the Sultan?

 

[Isaios]

Should capturing the Caliph not give a major increase in crusade contribution, considering it results in an auto-win?

It probably should, for ever so many reasons, but I've noticed that capturing anyone else doesn't contribute either, so ...

Wait, so is this the caliph of the Seljuks, who is not the Sultan? Or the Caliph of the Fatimids, who is the Sultan?

Doesn't matter, wouldn't give contribution score either way. (As far as I've seen that is, might be observational bias )

 

[Crater122]

Sorry, Sultan of the Fatimids.

 

[riknap]

well, capturing the caliph definitely pushed the warscore to 100...
though it's probably WAD that it didn't increase war contribution though...

 

[Dreamshifter]

I think that's currently my biggest pet peeve with the current crusade system. Even if you are the one with all the war score (from captured holdings, or from the caliph), you can end up handing the kingdom to someone else. I can understand it to a point, but really. Especially if the crusade would be lost without what you put in.

Ah, well. No help for it, I suppose.

 

[Malebranche]

WC doesn't work like the War Score system. Holding roughly 80% of the occupied counties and adding 60% to the War Score can still give the land to someone else.

 

[Isaios]

WC doesn't work like the War Score system. Holding roughly 80% of the occupied counties and adding 60% to the War Score can still give the land to someone else.

Though it's a bit difficult to hold that many enemy counties without having gotten a significant amount of Contribution from the sieges.

 

[delra]

You sure you nabbed the right guy? I am 100% certain that if the Pope gets capped, crusade is over. Even if you are occupying last few provinces you need to grab Jerusalem for yourself (breaks into tears).

 

[Mods]

You sure you nabbed the right guy? I am 100% certain that if the Pope gets capped, crusade is over. Even if you are occupying last few provinces you need to grab Jerusalem for yourself (breaks into tears).

he said that he won the crusade instantly, but Jerusalem went to France because it didn't credit him for capturing him

 

[unmerged(527492)]

I think this WAD and it's a good thing IMO. The contribution system helps make sure that the strongest possible Christian nation is holding the new Kingdom. Would you feel that capturing the Caliph should be decisive for war contribution is some one province Irish count did it on a fluke?

 

[unmerged(271387)]

How can an Irish count capture the caliph anyway?

 

[Isaios]

I think this WAD and it's a good thing IMO. The contribution system helps make sure that the strongest possible Christian nation is holding the new Kingdom. Would you feel that capturing the Caliph should be decisive for war contribution is some one province Irish count did it on a fluke?

Probably not, but on the other hand Godefroy de Bouillon was pretty randomly chosen to be Princeps. And the problem (to me) isn't that capturing the Caliph does not instantly give you all the things, but rather that it gives you virtually none of the things. I'd like at least SOME things, that's not too much to ask, is it?

How can an Irish count capture the caliph anyway?

Accidentally.

 

[Hootieleece]

Crusade contribution I think is partially based on how many troops fight under your banner. I won a Crusade for Jerusalem as HRE Emperor.I raised 125k of levies and retinue marched them to the Holy Land.where they got ambushed Little Bighorn style by an 127k Ilkhanate Deathstack.(died to last man) and didn't capture any holdings and was named King of Jerusalem soon after.

 

[Mods]

Crusade contribution I think is partially based on how many troops fight under your banner. I won a Crusade for Jerusalem as HRE Emperor.I raised 125k of levies and retinue marched them to the Holy Land.where they got ambushed Little Bighorn style by an 127k Ilkhanate Deathstack.(died to last man) and didn't capture any holdings and was named King of Jerusalem soon after.

yes the more troops you have in enemy land the more you 'contribute', how intelligent you use these armies is irrelevant
You can still win crusade as a duke though as long as you get there fast enough and finish the crusade before france and the HRE can get their doomstacks in there

 

[NewbieOne]

WC doesn't work like the War Score system. Holding roughly 80% of the occupied counties and adding 60% to the War Score can still give the land to someone else.

Which it definitely shouldn't be. It needs redesigning. If you hold the holdings, tackle and defeat the enemy forces in battle, let alone capture the enemy leader, the victory (the WC premium) shouldn't go to the guy who simply sent some troops over to sit there or die of attrition and wasteful assaults.

I also think a form of election or something like galvekind precedence should be used to make sure that while the winner gets the kingdom or gets to appoint the king, the rest can designate some of the major vassals (basically put their cadets there).

 

[Malebranche]

Battles seem to add much more to the contribution. In the crusade I mentioned above I lost more men than anyone else contributed with, and I still lost Jerusalem to a Holy Order with 20-30% difference in War Contribution. I joined by the end of the Crusade, when the Caliphs armies were already defeated, and assaulted holdings untill we won.

 

[Mods]

Battles seem to add much more to the contribution. In the crusade I mentioned above I lost more men than anyone else contributed with, and I still lost Jerusalem to a Holy Order with 20-30% difference in War Contribution. I joined by the end of the Crusade, when the Caliphs armies were already defeated, and assaulted holdings untill we won.

that's the problem, the amount of soldiers you have there are counted each day, meaning 10.000 soldiers being there doing nothing for 2 years beats an army of 30.000 thats there a month, even if that army is the sole reason of the successful crusade

 

[tuareg109]

Similarly, playing as Morcar of Northumberland I captured Harald Hardrada in battle! Seeing as vassals are basically auto-allied with their liege in wars, I expected Harold Godwinson's warscore against the Norse to jump to 100%.

Spoiler

It didn't.

So I just executed him and the war ended anyway.

Another problem was when I was playing as Harald Hardrada and took over England, I was then at war with Duke William because of his claim.
What I did was just destroy the Kingdom title, and the war ended immediately.
This strikes me as immensely unrealistic. "Oh, Harald has stopped calling himself King of England, and we don't have the piety or gold to do so? Well, I guess we're going home, boys." Come on, William would just chuckle, "Oh, silly Norseman," and keep on ravaging Harald's new lands.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

WAD. He can not claim or fight for a kingdom which no longer exists. Which title could he gain by winning? He has no claim on Norway. That said, I agree that you shouldn't be able to create or destroy titles during war. If that's what happened, report it in the bug forum.