Captured Equipment??

[DKoW]

The thought just came to me, so I thought I would share it.

Considering HoI4 is all about building equipment which gets distributed around your troops, as opposed to HoI3's building units that are fully equipped as standard, will there be a mechanic for a percentage of your enemies equipment to be redistributed/put into your weapons/equipment stockpile?

I only ask because in WW2, after the Germans took over France, Austria and Bohemia (Czech Republic) depending on its usefulness they incorporated some of the equipment of those nations into their armed forces.

For example, after the fall of France the Germans took still operating French tanks and converted them into whatever they needed them to be (most of them I think ended up as training vehicles). After all why waste the machines if they can still serve a purpose. They did the same thing to the Czech tanks.


You've already attempted something like this in HoI3 with the Anschluss With Austria decision, in that Germany receives up to 7 extra divisions. In reality the Germans took everything in the Austrian arsenal and repurposed it for their own needs.

The way I think this could be done is that when you take over a country, the computer does a quick comparison between what technologies you are higher in, and which technologies your opponent was higher in. If the computer finds that the opponent had a technology much more advanced than yours, and that technology was equipment related (for example Small Arms) then 10-15% of your opponents stockpile of that item gets transfered to you.

Alternatively it could just be a 5% boost accross the board. whichever is easier

 

[Daffius]

Better still would be getting equipments after encirclement... but probably too much to ask and something for HoI5.

 

[Shootist]

Captured equipment? In a game of Grand Strategy?

Nothing smaller than a Battleship, Cruiser Squadron or Aircraft Carrier, I hope.

 

[Axe99]

Captured equipment? In a game of Grand Strategy?

Nothing smaller than a Battleship, Cruiser Squadron or Aircraft Carrier, I hope.

Czech tanks that Germany gained through acquiring Czechoslovakia were important on a strategic level (as was French equipment after the Battle of France, and equipment from both sides in the North Africa Campaign), and the game is tracking equipment, so it's not implausible or inappropriate.

I have a vague memory that the devs have mentioned that capturing equipment will make the game

The devs have definitely mentioned that equipment is tracked as individual pieces of equipment - so a country won't have 300 'medium tanks - 1940', but rather 150 Pz Mk III Ausf A, 100 Ausf B's and 50 Ausf C's, so there's no reason that the pool couldn't also include 50 Somua S35's as well, so instead of a 'increase your stock of whatever model it is by X%, they can just inherit a set percentage of the remaining equipment of a defeated nation/encircled enemy.

 

[Jmland]

Don't forget about factories....

For much (not all) of the "foreign" equipment that the Germans used, they had captured and operated the factories. This was especially true for the Czech equipment, lesser so for the French. For much of the Russian equipment, the Germans had to refit it/them in Germany.

Example: One of the Soviet artillery pieces that the Germans captured thousands of (not sure, think it was 75mm towed field arty), the Germans rebored the gun barrel to accept German ammunition (which was set to finer tolerances than Soviet ammunition). It wasn't to change the caliber of the gun tube, but to make it work right with the german stuff that it was "mated" with.

The point of this is that you can't expect to capture 175,000 tanks/arty/whatever and have them immediately available for use (unless you can tolerate a 1% chance of it exploding every time you use it), you MIGHT have to spend some resources to ensure that it works right.

However, if you capture the factories, then all is good....until you want to change production....

 

[DKoW]

Considering that HoI3 wouldn't let you build another nations equipment (outside of buying the license) I don't know/think HoI4 is going to be any different. Which is why I suggest a small boost to your current stockpile of the different categories (light, medium, heavy tank for example) as opposed to being given a set of tanks that your tech tree is not geared towards upgrading.

I think this is the best, and simplest way to abstract this effect in game.

The factories I hadn't considered though. But them keeping their efficiency bonus for what they were making, after they are captured, would be good too.

 

[Evil4Zerggin]

I think it was mentioned that model names and pictures are purely cosmetic. So if capturing equipment is in the game at all (it does seem like a useful thing to have in events at least), I imagine it will probably be in the form of "50x medium tanks, model 1936, default variant" and thereafter indistinguishable from your home-grown tanks of that tech slot and variant.

 

[Assono]

I think in HOI4 this would be awensome you should be able to capture equipment and decide where to put it?Directly into front or to the enginieers to work at it to modify you equipment at lower cost(taking 3 months)0\being able to produce this equipment (taking from 2 to 10 months)

 

[Chromos]

I think this could be easily done with a modifer to battles and tied to how the battle was won(encriclement/breakthrough/"std" etc.) and how fast.
As an enemy that retreats fast is most times giving up his equipment and so on.

So depending on such basic formular you get a modifer of how much % of enemy equipment is captured.

If that equipment is easily of any usage for your country would need a different treatment though. So I don't know if the devs want to go into such topic.

 

[Spyro Magno]

Oh this would be awesome.

My thought is this: there would be some malus taken in account for using captured equipment?

AFAIK all the supply in the game are treated equally right? So between a rifle ammunition, and a anti tank shell there is no difference right?
So as it is now for fair play there shouldn't be any malus for having foreign equipment because otherwise there should be a production malus for producing a new kind of tank shell for any new tank you produce plus a heavier supply burden for supplying 2 kind of shells the front.
So as it stand now it would be too much of an advantage to allow capturing equipment, i mean you encircle 80000 troops (easy peasy in barbarossa)and with some manpower you have like 10 new tank divisions and just steamroll everything.
You could argue that barrels should be rebored, but actually you could instead just produce the same kind of shell the tank use.
As far as we know there's now such depth in the game to support this kind of decision, so if i would have to choose to have captured equipment with some lame malus (or no malus at all) and no captured equipment i would go for the latter.

 

[George Parr]

So as it stand now it would be too much of an advantage to allow capturing equipment, i mean you encircle 80000 troops (easy peasy in barbarossa)and with some manpower you have like 10 new tank divisions and just steamroll everything.

Now that is pushing it a bit. Even if the entire 80000 men where indeed part of tank divisions, which is very much unlikely, you wouldn't end up with enough tanks for ten divisions.
a) as long as they are still a somewhat capable fighting force, they will continue to fight. 80000 men combined in tank divisions is serious firepower that could delay enemy advance for quite some time and won't just give up right away
b) if they are not a capable force anymore, they won't have enough tanks to equip lots of divisions with
c) if they continue to fight, tanks will get knocked out, meaning the number of tanks you can save (and not just for spare parts or as repurposed vehicles) shrinks continously
d) if it becomes obvious that they are about to surrender, crews will destroy their tanks, and not all of them will be saveable

Beyond that, you still need the men to raise a new division and train them as well. Tanks are just a number of equipment. There aren't thousands of tank-crews laying in wait for a new tank to arrive.

 

[Denkt]

Getting equipment was a very good reason for winning land as the opponent may been forced to abandon equipment, damaged vehicle which the conqueror then could fix and use.

 

[No idea]

Agree with the op. Germans used checz light tanks, as they were better than thirs. And used french equipment, which they got in large quantities after the fall of France. I think a country surrendering should give you a share of ttheir equipment pool.

 

[Gratch11]

most french equipment were used as plattforms for other stuff, like SP guns, TD etc. But they really were thankful for all the french trucks, of which there were many

T-34s were used and art guns were used as AT guns.

As for czech, the germans used allmost all theirs and could setup a lot of new divisions

And dont forget all the heavy BEF stuff after Dunkirk

 

[Stenner]

http://youtu.be/hwFvVM_zZxQ?t=26m43s

They're working on it.

Am I the only one that listens to their youtube playlist everynight before bed? Yes? Huh, weird.

 

[Ruthlesssamuria]

I agree captured equipment and supplies should be allowed to be used. The Germans used the huge amount of Russian equipment they captured in 1941. Rebored artillery to their cal. and even using some infantry weapons like their semi auto 7.62*54 rifles and 25 Cal. sub machine guns. The Japanese could use any Commonwealth rifle ammo in their rifles 7.7 MM Jap is same as 303. I shot 7.7 Jap in a 303 they are exactly the same. Also the Japanese could use captured Commonwealth Bren guns since they used the same gun in 303 Cal.! I hope they allow stockpiles to be placed on map. Also I hate that they have you lose all your stockpiled stuff resource's supplies etc.. for entire nation when the capital falls that is not realistic! I hope they change that!

 

[Stenner]

So I just found out, please don't think I'm dumb.. But apparently Churchill thought that Germany would inherit Britains Navy if Britain were to fall, which he tried to make Roosevelt understand, and in doing so was trying to appeal to Roosevelt to help (at that time by sending extra destroyers)



Should something like that be in this game? Could it be? I think it would be great.

 

[shri]

Germany used captured-
Czech inc. the Skoda and other armament factories
Austrian inc. integrating the divisions into their 1st Welle (Wave) and then using their factories
Polish- some polish equipment parceled to the allies (Balkan nations) in return for Wheat and Oil
French and UK- captured trucks were used right upto 1944, most of them captured in 1940.
Russian- Thousands of Trucks and Guns were reused and even 100s of Tanks.

So, they did benefit, as for others except Finland (Winter War) and the UK using Italian Trucks (Pre Rommel Offensives) and Tanks in Africa very little material was captured in bulk to fit-out 1 division as a whole leave alone 10.

 

[safe-keeper]

American destroyers being handed over to the UK is already in HOI3 as an event, don't see why it couldn't be in HOI4 as well .

 

[Porkman]

Germany used captured-
Czech inc. the Skoda and other armament factories
Austrian inc. integrating the divisions into their 1st Welle (Wave) and then using their factories
Polish- some polish equipment parceled to the allies (Balkan nations) in return for Wheat and Oil
French and UK- captured trucks were used right upto 1944, most of them captured in 1940.
Russian- Thousands of Trucks and Guns were reused and even 100s of Tanks.

So, they did benefit, as for others except Finland (Winter War) and the UK using Italian Trucks (Pre Rommel Offensives) and Tanks in Africa very little material was captured in bulk to fit-out 1 division as a whole leave alone 10.

The Japanese made the 40,000 strong Indian National Army and equipped it with captured British weapons.

China and Japan both used lots of captured equipment from the other side on mainland China. The Chinese communists were even more reliant on captured equipment.