Capitulation & overseas territory

[Alexander Suvorov]

In a previous WWW Episode, The Kingdom of the Netherlands capitulated to the German Reich. As of WWW #8, They still hold their overseas territory; the war in question (the "german-polish war") is still raging.

The Japanese later capitulated to the Americans, also part of the German-Polish War (because everyone is invited German-Polish War, of course. anything less would be rude.) in this case, the overseas territory flipped except where there were units allied to japan in the province at the time of capitulation; that is, this territory was treated the same as the territory of say Finland was.

I know it's not a bug that Japan's territory in the former Soviet Union flipped to the USA.(How do I know? Johan said so.) but it is a bit confusing how this works. Maybe the way overseas territory is handled was changed sometime in the last 6-8 weeks? It might be working as intended in both videos and was changed after the earlier episode or it could be I have missed something entirely and just don't get how the capitulation works. if someone could shed some light on this, that would be great.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

podcat said it's not WAD, it happened because the Japanese capital was relocated to Manchuria and the capitulation triggered from the mainland instead of Japan proper.

 

[Alexander Suvorov]

That makes perfect sense then, and is consistently handled in both videos. thanks for the info!

 

[rjohansen]

Japan, moving their capital to Mandchuria don't make completely sense to me...

 

[aruon]

Japan, moving their capital to Mandchuria don't make completely sense to me...

well that's because manchukuo can't be represented without ruining the japan AI, but harbin or wherever probably has more VP than Seoul. or maybe it's just random who the hell knows.

 

[LordOfWar16]

It was a bug, podcat confirmed it. What happened was because of the japanese capital moving to manchuria, it caused both, the japanese mainland and the aquired territories to flip. That shouldnt be the case, just as with Finland, Sweden or the Netherlands for example where not connected territory doesnt flip. Gotland and Aland for example were still under swedish and finish controll aswell for example.

 

[Blijert]

...Gotland and Aland for example were still under swedish and finish controll aswell for example.

This looks annoying as hell btw. They are small islands in a relatively small area very close to their nations mainland. No way these area's wouldn't have surrendered along with the nation.
Maybe some better rules for straits could provide a fix?

Regarding Japan in WWW, this was a very particular situation. A nation that doesn't control it's own capital shouldn't be able to demand so much land just yet ( Or Daniel should have paid more attention to Japan's situation anyway).

 

[LordOfWar16]

This looks annoying as hell btw. They are small islands in a relatively small area very close to their nations mainland. No way these area's wouldn't have surrendered along with the nation.
Maybe some better rules for straits could provide a fix?

Regarding Japan in WWW, this was a very particular situation. A nation that doesn't control it's own capital shouldn't be able to demand so much land just yet ( Or Daniel should have paid more attention to Japan's situation anyway).

nothing an paratrooper division cant fix within a few (ingame) days.

The capital gets moved if it is taken as always, so the japanese controlled their capital, just not their original one. Same story with the Soviets, their capital jumped from one city to another untill they eventually capitulated. As for Japan they have an very high national unity and i think even some very powerfull national spirits. They are very spiritual and self sacrifical for the emperor.

If japan controlls basicly half of the soviet union (the poor part mind you) they shouldnt simply fold because their main island is gone. Overall, the resources are in china, thats why they expanded there in the first place. Mainland Japan is an "small" island with a lack of alot of resources but alot of manpower.

 

[Alexander Suvorov]

If japan controlls basicly half of the soviet union (the poor part mind you) they shouldnt simply fold because their main island is gone.

I am not agreeing or disagreeing, but I would like to point out that during the peace conference, when da9l zooms in enough for the game to display the values for the different states, there is nothing but zeros in the territory japan takes. So the "poor part" is a bit of an understatement, at least in terms of the way the game values the land. All the zero point territory in the world won't tip the math one way or the other. so, all of that territory didn't change when japan would capitulate at all because it didn't add any VP, by the looks of that screen. Further east there were real values for the states shown, not just zeros.

This is speculative and unconfirmed of course.

 

[LordOfWar16]

I am not agreeing or disagreeing, but I would like to point out that during the peace conference, when da9l zooms in enough for the game to display the values for the different states, there is nothing but zeros in the territory japan takes. So the "poor part" is a bit of an understatement, at least in terms of the way the game values the land. All the zero point territory in the world won't tip the math one way or the other. so, all of that territory didn't change when japan would capitulate at all because it didn't add any VP, by the looks of that screen. Further east there were real values for the states shown, not just zeros.

This is speculative and unconfirmed of course.

The zeroes were an bug as Daniel stated.

 

[MajorHeartfire]

It's a bug, plain and simple. Capitulation should cause the loss of all territory that can be connected via a land route. Overseas territories that are not threatened, are a different story.

I'm more looking forward to what they bring us next. I'm hoping that as we near completion of the game we have a larger Axis vs. Allies vs. USSR multiplayer game.

 

[Alexander Suvorov]

The zeroes were an bug as Daniel stated.

And to be clear we are not talking about the bug regarding which provinces/states should have capitulated. that has been well covered i think (thanks for your answers on that subject by the way.)

I know he said that during the live stream. Maybe it is indeed a bug. when he says "there's a bug with a bunch of zeros" we don't know whether he refers to zero being an incorrect value, or if he means that the game should only display the value of the state if it actually has a value - that is to say don't show the zeros over the worthless regions - or if he meant something else. I think those states are worth a fraction of a point, and are displayed as zeros.

If you pay close attention further west in the occupied territory it shows actual values for the states not just zeros.

It seems plain those states/provinces didn't add many total victory points for japan, not enough to keep them from capitulating, at least.

 

[LordOfWar16]

And to be clear we are not talking about the bug regarding which provinces/states should have capitulated. that has been well covered i think (thanks for your answers on that subject by the way.)

I know he said that during the live stream. Maybe it is indeed a bug. when he says "there's a bug with a bunch of zeros" we don't know whether he refers to zero being an incorrect value, or if he means that the game should only display the value of the state if it actually has a value - that is to say don't show the zeros over the worthless regions - or if he meant something else. I think those states are worth a fraction of a point, and are displayed as zeros.

If you pay close attention further west in the occupied territory it shows actual values for the states not just zeros.

It seems plain those states/provinces didn't add many total victory points for japan, not enough to keep them from capitulating, at least.

all states should have an value and shouldnt be "for free". As we all know cities and each state are victory points and of course in the eastern parts of russia there arent many big ones. In the eastern parts Victory Points mainly come from the states themself rather than some big cities, of course.

 

[Red_warning]

Japan, moving their capital to Mandchuria don't make completely sense to me...

Seoul would make more sense

This looks annoying as hell btw. They are small islands in a relatively small area very close to their nations mainland. No way these area's wouldn't have surrendered along with the nation.
Maybe some better rules for straits could provide a fix?

Regarding Japan in WWW, this was a very particular situation. A nation that doesn't control it's own capital shouldn't be able to demand so much land just yet ( Or Daniel should have paid more attention to Japan's situation anyway).

Johan occupied the island for a while, and I think relatively isolated provinces such as Gotland gladly would defy the surrender of their government if guaranteed by larger powers such as the British.