Capitulation confusion

[drake546]

so I just beat France as Germany. My soldiers did almost all the work, fought their way to Paris, encircled the entire northern French army....

And France capitulated to Italy. Who got almost the whole country. Who never got more than a province or two past the border.

Did I forget to do something? What did I do wrong to cause this?

 

[Dalwin]

You were the victim of some of the vagaries of the war score system.

I have no doubt that the Italians lost Mussolini's proverbial few thousand men and then some. Fighting hard and taking casualties awards war score. I think it is good that it does so, but perhaps the amount given for this is larger than it should be. If your own casualties had been higher, you'd probably have had a higher score than Italy and gotten first choice of spoils.

The peace conference system is also flawed by the fact that if two participants have roughly equal scores, the one who is slightly higher may have enough to annex virtually everything leaving his partner with the only slightly lower score with nothing.

 

[Berge20]

Wonder if it makes more sense to switch participants in negotiations if one has more. Ie annex provinces one at a time, so if A starts with 100, B starts with 95---A annexes something with 6+ they get it, but then B gets to go until they have less than A. Repeat as needed.

Kind of messy/lengthy in some cases, but fairer.

 

[Brucesim2003]

Occupation should mean MUCH more than anything else, imo. Joe schmo can literally lose his way to victory as the current system stands, while you brilliant blitzkrieg that captures 1/2 the country with minimal casualties is worth sweet F.A..

 

[drake546]

You were the victim of some of the vagaries of the war score system.

I have no doubt that the Italians lost Mussolini's proverbial few thousand men and then some. Fighting hard and taking casualties awards war score. I think it is good that it does so, but perhaps the amount given for this is larger than it should be. If your own casualties had been higher, you'd probably have had a higher score than Italy and gotten first choice of spoils.

The peace conference system is also flawed by the fact that if two participants have roughly equal scores, the one who is slightly higher may have enough to annex virtually everything leaving his partner with the only slightly lower score with nothing.

Well that's bloody stupid. Thanks for explaining. I guess I shouldn't have let them join my war?

I mean they literally got every piece of France I wasnt standing on. How is this still in he game after almost a year?

 

[elektrizikekswerk]

Occupation should mean MUCH more than anything else, imo. Joe schmo can literally lose his way to victory as the current system stands, while you brilliant blitzkrieg that captures 1/2 the country with minimal casualties is worth sweet F.A..

That was the way some versions ago leading to similar results:
You do all the fighting, lock the enemy's armies in combat while your allies occupy all those precious unguarded provinces recieving all the warscore just for hitting the pedal to the metal.
However, another point which might lead to high war scores for not doing much is strategic bombing. It's capped at 1000 points, but in such short wars as with France this value is most likely never reached. But according to my experiences the only (AI) player regulary scoring high in that filed is UK.

As a conclusion can be said: The current system is still unbalanced, but I think they're working on it to make it fair.

 

[KiwiNoob]

You were the victim of some of the vagaries of the war score system.

I have no doubt that the Italians lost Mussolini's proverbial few thousand men and then some. Fighting hard and taking casualties awards war score. I think it is good that it does so, but perhaps the amount given for this is larger than it should be. If your own casualties had been higher, you'd probably have had a higher score than Italy and gotten first choice of spoils.

Dying and sucking awards the most score. This is why the AI always has such high warscores. No human could ever bleed manpower as fast as the AI does.

 

[Captured Joe]

Occupation should mean MUCH more than anything else, imo. Joe schmo can literally lose his way to victory as the current system stands, while you brilliant blitzkrieg that captures 1/2 the country with minimal casualties is worth sweet F.A..

That's not a great idea, since usually it's not neccessarily the country that actually takes the territory but the country from whose borders the assault comes. This way two-thirds of Germany may end up in Belgian hands without any Belgian soldier having to die for it when the allied counter-offensive kicks off.

 

[Drewoid13]

I found as Japan that despite fighting the USSR for a couple of years longer than Germany, losing more men, and capturing almost the whole East half, Germany still ended up with a slightly higher score because of territory they took in the west. Felt totally cheated having slogged it out for so long, only for Germany to strut through a weakened back line and didn't have to waste away against the brunt of the USSR power. Really frustrated with that.

 

[amalric de g.]

There is a nice and handy mod in the steamworkshop, player led peace conference, i never played without it, after i discovered it. You decide wo gets what, the crappy AI has no say.

 

[Drewoid13]

There is a nice and handy mod in the steamworkshop, player led peace conference, i never played without it, after i discovered it. You decide wo gets what, the crappy AI has no say.

Achievement compatible though? I don't usually care about achievements, but if I'm going to play Ironman I might as well allow achievements.

 

[Dalwin]

I don't use this mod or care about achievements, but I am certain that mod is not achievement compatible. As a good rule of thumb, if it changes the checksum, it is not compatible.

 

[Drewoid13]

Thank you Dalwin. I'll check it out anyway. I (and don't we all) always prefer a sanctioned pdx update hence the suggestion.

I've still been playing vanilla to get a better hang of the various countries, and I really just need more time to play, much less find a mod I like.

 

[NightKev]

Achievement compatible though? I don't usually care about achievements, but if I'm going to play Ironman I might as well allow achievements.

No mod that changes gameplay will ever be achievement compatible.

 

[drake546]

I just loaded up my game and seeing Italy spread across Europe just made me turn the game off. What a stupid mechanic, I have no desire to play now.

 

[Captured Joe]

Speaking about achievements, it's pretty much impossible to get the Big Entente achievement due to the ridiculous Peace Conferences. Yeah, so you somehow got enough warscore to annex 90% of Germany in the first round of the conference? Well screw you, your allies just released Germany as a democratic nation (not even a friggin puppet) with a single province, which will never join your stupid Entente because there's the allies too. Also Belgium takes all of Poland. And Memel.

 

[drake546]

Speaking about achievements, it's pretty much impossible to get the Big Entente achievement due to the ridiculous Peace Conferences. Yeah, so you somehow got enough warscore to annex 90% of Germany in the first round of the conference? Well screw you, your allies just released Germany as a democratic nation (not even a friggin puppet) with a single province, which will never join your stupid Entente because there's the allies too. Also Belgium takes all of Poland. And Memel.

Well hearing about those problems has me desiring to play even less. Seriously I waited a year to buy this game, I assumed problems this jarring would have been fixed.

 

[elektrizikekswerk]

Speaking about achievements, it's pretty much impossible to get the Big Entente achievement due to the ridiculous Peace Conferences. Yeah, so you somehow got enough warscore to annex 90% of Germany in the first round of the conference? Well screw you, your allies just released Germany as a democratic nation (not even a friggin puppet) with a single province, which will never join your stupid Entente because there's the allies too. Also Belgium takes all of Poland. And Memel.

But luckily annexing big parts Germany will give you that much WT that the Allies eventually will DoW you. I completed the achievement after conquering first Germany and Italy. UK released Thuringia as German Republic which joined Allies in an instant.
In a second war I manged to defeat UK and the USA somewhat in the early 50's... The Chanel coast from Brittany to Belgium was a nuclear wasteland (I didn't care much) as was California and wide parts of the northern USA (I approached from the south through British Mexico). All across Europe I had ICBMs stationed ready to fly to New York every now and then...
All just to annex Thuringia... But I stayed democratic the whole time.
I ignored the USSR as they ignored me. They were at war with the Allies from the early 40's, though. I _love_ ahistorical mode

It was a very tedious, but very funny game

/edit: Sry for OT. It just came over me...

 

[Captured Joe]

But luckily annexing big parts Germany will give you that much WT that the Allies eventually will DoW you.

Not in my games, they just sat there twisting their thumbs while Japan and China were looking angry at eachother over the water while occasionally sending doomed naval invasions.

 

[Person012345]

There is a nice and handy mod in the steamworkshop, player led peace conference, i never played without it, after i discovered it. You decide wo gets what, the crappy AI has no say.

Yep. I was gonna say this. I havent actually had the opportunity to use it properly yet (largely due to mostly playing other things) but if you have any self-control at all you can use this and distribute territories properly, in accordance with actual contribution and sensible borders.