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thedarkendstar

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It's to early dude, let's hear what that means exactly first before. But yes, the original Victoria as madness, so much micro managment, i remember spending hours promoting pops manually, i loved that game.
Yes its early but that's the best time to input criticism of the system as its the easiest time to change thing if the trade system of EU4 was criticized early on maybe it wouldn't be a one way system that the devs now wish to change but cant because its too hard coded in.

This isnt to say it will be changed or that the game is going to be bad but to give pre release feedback on systems to help the devs understand the views of the audience.
 
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Prince Ire

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One of our goals with this game is to put a lot more agency in the hands of the player when it comes to shaping the economic development of their nation. That doesn't mean we want it to devolve into a micromanagement fest of course, but more on that later on (I know I keep saying that but we have so many dev diaries to come and I don't want to get too ahead of them!)
One of the things I liked about Victoria 2 is how many things you actually didn't have much agency over. I'd often start up industry myself but mostly let the capitalists handle it afterwards. Definitely not excited about directing the economy myself.
 
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thedarkendstar

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One of the things I liked about Victoria 2 is how many things you actually didn't have much agency over. I'd often start up industry myself but mostly let the capitalists handle it afterwards. Definitely not excited about directing the economy myself.
This I want agency over how my nation develops but I don't wanna do that all myself you might give funding to an agency in a government but you wont tend to micromanage that agency unless they really screw up XD.
 
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Vohen

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Ctrl+LMB on upgrade factories for Vic2 is always your friend, liberal parties were just bad all around.
 
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nuarbnellaffej

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I preferred the way Victoria I was handling things. As a player I want to be able to control how my country develops and even build my industry. In real life I know communism does not work out well. Sure. But this is a game. Means: Model liberal pops and capitalism as an ideology and for internal politics, but give me direct control over how my country, industry and markets evolve - that's the way to go for Vicky III as far as I am concerned.
In Vicky 2 I end up modding the ideologies file to give my respective political party ‘state capitalism’ as their economic policy since the capitalist AI was so random at picking which factories to build in a given state.
 
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generalis Julius Caesar

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In Vicky 2 I end up modding the ideologies file to give my respective political party ‘state capitalism’ as their economic policy since the capitalist AI was so random at picking which factories to build in a given state.
*rolls a dice* well old chap, this dice says to build a clipper shipyard.
 
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Orinsul

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Most people never fully microed the economy in Victoria 2 that would be insane on larger countries most would set up the economy via planned with key industries then switch to Lassie faire
I have never done that, and done everything in power to prevent L-F parties every coming to power, they close factories and mess up the economy in V2. I always pushed towards S-C or Planned. It didn't really occur to me anyone wouldn't with large countries as L-F is such instability.
I would have guessed, most people would have full micro-ed
 
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thedarkendstar

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I have never done that, and done everything in power to prevent L-F parties every coming to power, they close factories and mess up the economy in V2. I always pushed towards S-C or Planned. It didn't really occur to me anyone wouldn't with large countries as L-F is such instability.
I would have guessed, most people would have full micro-ed
God no I fine that extremely un fun At most I will set up the economy with a few core industries switch to interventionist and just destroy bad factories
 

DominusNovus

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I will say that I am not stating unequivocally that there will not be any autonomous construction of buildings though
That is a very tortured and indirect sentence.
 
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DominusNovus

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I have never done that, and done everything in power to prevent L-F parties every coming to power, they close factories and mess up the economy in V2. I always pushed towards S-C or Planned. It didn't really occur to me anyone wouldn't with large countries as L-F is such instability.
I would have guessed, most people would have full micro-ed
Ugh, no. I always went LF, on principle alone.
 
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One of our goals with this game is to put a lot more agency in the hands of the player when it comes to shaping the economic development of their nation. That doesn't mean we want it to devolve into a micromanagement fest of course, but more on that later on (I know I keep saying that but we have so many dev diaries to come and I don't want to get too ahead of them!)
I know you still have later diaries, but please add an Ai governor or the like similar to stellaris if we don't want to personally micro buildings. Like guide them to say please focus industry, agriculture, etc.
 
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Vernichtere

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So what, as an LF society capitalists are part of the government. The player takes their role.
Some people think that economic processes are rolled at the macro level. Factories come about by chance, purely according to the individual entrepreneur's taste. The game does not simulate the individual level. The factory stands for an entire complex. The wrong decisions and the bankrupt entrepreneurs are not simulated. The possible failure is only simulated in a longer perspective. Which is why I don't necessarily have to let AI build factories in order to simulate a laissez-faire market economy. Building a "factory" can also simply pose the question of whose money is used, who benefits from it, what share the state gets.
 
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Vohen

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I have never done that, and done everything in power to prevent L-F parties every coming to power, they close factories and mess up the economy in V2. I always pushed towards S-C or Planned. It didn't really occur to me anyone wouldn't with large countries as L-F is such instability.
I would have guessed, most people would have full micro-ed
Liberal parties were almost guaranteed to crash the economy once or twice in the mid-late game.
At the very least, the inability of subsidizing factories would be extremely painful for steel production and everything that depends on it once the iron shortage kicks in.
 
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Vernichtere

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Liberal parties were almost guaranteed to crash the economy once or twice in the mid-late game.
At the very least, the inability of subsidizing factories would be extremely painful for steel production and everything that depends on it once the iron shortage kicks in.
Exactly for the reason it never went like this with historical great powers. The state repeatedly intervened in the interests of certain groups. The beautiful fairy tale of the power of the free market economy was mainly reserved for gaining access to foreign markets. Or to tell the workers that with a little effort anyone could do it.
 
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XT6Wagon

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One of our goals with this game is to put a lot more agency in the hands of the player when it comes to shaping the economic development of their nation. That doesn't mean we want it to devolve into a micromanagement fest of course, but more on that later on (I know I keep saying that but we have so many dev diaries to come and I don't want to get too ahead of them!)

Good, I modded the government types to allow government construction of industry for almost all types. It makes no sense in this time period that a Government couldnt make a arsenal to make guns and cannons for its military. Government shipyards were very much a thing for all government types. Road building since roman times was more governmental than economic. So why would the government be blocked from creating its own sources for road building materials?

I can't see the idea of "oh we are too capitalist, so we are going to import cement and guns from europe at insane prices instead of spending a little tax money to start doing it here"
 
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DominusNovus

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Good, I modded the government types to allow government construction of industry for almost all types. It makes no sense in this time period that a Government couldnt make a arsenal to make guns and cannons for its military. Government shipyards were very much a thing for all government types. Road building since roman times was more governmental than economic. So why would the government be blocked from creating its own sources for road building materials?

I can't see the idea of "oh we are too capitalist, so we are going to import cement and guns from europe at insane prices instead of spending a little tax money to start doing it here"
Except there were such restrictions that governments often faced. Look at the US in this time period, when the federal government was often constrained in directly engaging in such projects.
 
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nuarbnellaffej

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Ugh, no. I always went LF, on principle alone.
I did that too, at first, but real life principles and in game mechanics just don’t jive all that well unfortunately.

Generally speaking IRL, LF/market economies tend to be far more efficient and rationalized compared to centrally planned economies since the decision making is dispersed among people at lower levels who have a better understanding of local conditions than some bureaucrat in a distant capital. But in Vicky 2, this means the “AI capitalists” are the ones making these decisions, and frankly they are bad at it.

They often elect to build factories for goods that are in low demand, that don’t benefit from resources present in a given state, or factories that require resource inputs you have absolutely zero access to.
Except there were such restrictions that governments often faced. Look at the US in this time period, when the federal government was often constrained in directly engaging in such projects.
Arguments about the historicity of governments directly deciding what sort of industries should be build are imo, secondary to the fact that the AI capitalists struggled to make the proper decisions real life capitalists would have.

The encourage certain industry types national focuses help I guess, but I never had great luck with those. As the government of a major military power, it shouldn’t be that difficult to encourage the development of domestic armaments industries so that my army/navy dosent languish for artillery, small arms, or ammunition the moment a war breaks out elsewhere in the world and exports of said goods dries up.
 
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Word_Smith

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Playing Laissez Faire China in Vicky 2 was a ton of fun because your country's capitalists would throw everything at the wall and only the profitable factories would stick around. All you had to do was tear down the old bankrupt factories to make room for the new ones.
 
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alexti

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What we're aiming for is to give the player the agency to try and direct their country the way they please - but not with any guaranteed success. You make the choices, but that also means you have to deal with the consequences and reactions from the people in your nation who disagree with those choices and who might seek to overturn them.

I will say that I am not stating unequivocally that there will not be any autonomous construction of buildings though - just that the player will never be completely unable to interact with the building system, as it's such an integral part of the game's core loop.
Was it considered to implement player agency via indirect actions, such as subsidies or tax breaks to certain industries?
 
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