Capacities: Victoria 3 Expert Discussion (Spudgun)

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Vohen

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I would greatly appreciate it you provided us with a source for that.
Hmm... Actually, I couldn't find any.
I could've sworn I had heard something like it, but it may have been my own interpretation from what was said that I took as fact for some reason.
It might've been because Wiz directly quoted the Bavarian's tweet mentioning exactly that, but he didn't actually address using goods or money, or even the process itself.
Thanks for making me factcheck myself, consider me now worried.

The tweet in question: (Wiz quoted the first one).

I think these have all been confirmed as still in the game. Just as functions of the economy, markets, literacy, job availability etc rather than being under the bCapacity.
Still pretty strange to decouple it from bureaucracy though, and having just a tax penalty could undermine the whole mechanic in the end.

Regarding Nurse_Reno's credentials, are you talking about that guide on the reddit? This one? If so, that is hardly a guide; it basically only said that the mechanics behind sphereing are nosense and that you should be sphereing. There are much better guides out that in regards to the economy and industrialization.
I mean, I have yet to see a guide that goes so deep into the bowels of the economy simulation, if you could point one to me I'd love to read it.

Furthermore, Reno said twice that he is concerned about the pop system being similar to Supreme Ruler 2020, which is utterly ludicrous, seeing the pop dev diary. The thing is, he should already know this; he did a stream on it, but seemingly forgot. I was losing my mind with all the horrible takes coming out of him particuarly, and out of others. It seemed that most people on that stream have already decided the Vicky 3 could not possibly be a good game.
Agreed, but like I said, even if I consider their opinions credible enough (from a Vic2 perspective) to be worth listening, they aren't to be taken as gospel, we have to think about what they are saying and disregard if they are not in line with public info.
And their "doomer" stance is certainly pervasive in this matter, and even more reason to take it with a grain of salt, as it most certainly will (and already has) skew their views in a lot of ways.

It is most likely the case where, the further you are above the cap, the more penalties you will suffer, even beyond tax waste. Even with just tax waste, that is a vast sum of money just gone; there have been plenty of times where if I lowered taxes by 20% across the board I would most certainly be deeply in the red.
I hope so, but I haven't seen any info on that yet, so as far as we know it's simply a tax penalty.
And yes, I'd agree that Vic2 is the PDX game that deal with treasury in the most realistic way, but even then it wasn't very hard to be on a huge surplus by the late game, to the point where you could lower taxation to 0% sometimes.
There it was just a quirk, but here it would render bureaucratic capacity pretty much irrelevant, with huge implications.

The problem with this video is that a few of the individuals present have already decided that Vicky 3 will be a downgrade from Vicky 2, and started pontificating this doomer position and convinced some of the others, whom were fence leaners. You could actually write a disseration on all the horrible takes in this video.
It is indeed a problem, and one to be scrutinized for sure, but I'm certainly hoping they can find people from the other side to balance the discussion in the future.
 
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I haven't been up to speed with EU4 stuff for a while (despite it being one of my most played games) but from what I saw most the to backlash to that DLC, which was a tad more than a lot to understate, came from incredibly poor performance and balance issues, not from the actual mechanics and features the DLC added? That's the type of stuff you won't see if a dev diary anyway.
Well, that's the thing, EU4 expansions have destroyed the game by making it so bloated an inconsistent with itself, but people never complain about it.

That's because most people don't go beyond the mindset of "new content for the game, great!".

We need more people on the forums that analyse and criticize the development and design of the games. Devs need feedback, not just hype nonsense.
 
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Alfred Dreyfus

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I have to ask you a question: did you follow the Imperator's development? Because I did and I remember a ton of criticism under the dev diaries, especially under the more controversial ones (about the "fun and engaging" single five-year consul, four buildings, mana etc.). You can read it all here if your memory is fuzzy:
Yes, there was hype, because people were excited that a new Rome game is going to be released and it will have pops, beautiful huge map etc. But there was no "unconditional" support of everything the devs announced. People wanted to love the game, but bad features were clearly seen by the majority even then.

EU4 expansions - the same story. People hated the button where you get one building slot for a ton of admin capacity, people were wary of the concentrate development, pillage capital and curry favors. A couple of hyped guys aren't "unconditional support".
It seems like the forum reactions have been erased (probably because the forum update after I:R release), but I'm pretty sure if I recall right that all those I:R dev diaries had a lot more "agrees" than "disagrees" back then.
 
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It seems like the forum reactions have been erased (probably because the forum update after I:R release), but I'm pretty sure if I recall right that all those I:R dev diaries had a lot more "agrees" than "disagrees" back then.
Maybe the majority had more positive ratings, but there were a lot of DDs that were higly controversial (see: this one about pops)
 
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Are you kidding me?

So if Leviathan didn't break your savegames, you would consider Leviathan a good DLC?
Leviathan bad because Leviathan breaks stuff.
Leviathan not bad because features it introduced.
 
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I highly doubt you followed the development of I:R if that's how you remember it. People were extremely critical of the game before release, with plenty of dev diaries being heavily 'respectfully disagreed' with.
Yes, and Imperator came out perfect because everyone 'respectfully disagreed' their hearts out.
 
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Yes, and Imperator came out perfect because everyone 'respectfully disagreed' their hearts out.
Not sure what your point is, but as a developer it's incredibly hard to know how representative forum member opinions are of the general player base. The reception in the forums was negative but the launch could've been successful anyway. It wasn't though. People didn't like it, and they reworked the core mechanics - turning it into one of the best Paradox games after it was clear that people didn't like 1.0.
 
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It seems like the forum reactions have been erased (probably because the forum update after I:R release), but I'm pretty sure if I recall right that all those I:R dev diaries had a lot more "agrees" than "disagrees" back then.
Depends on the dev diary. I remember the perhaps most important one, the one on pops, was heavily downvoted, as were most of Johan's replies in regards to it. Most of the other dev diaries on other topics were upvoted as usual, but most of that were not really things that in retrospect ruined the game. In general, I think the response to each individual diary was decently accurate to how the eventual response at release was to what was being covered in each respective diary.
 
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Depends on the dev diary. I remember the perhaps most important one, the one on pops, was heavily downvoted, as were most of Johan's replies in regards to it. Most of the other dev diaries on other topics were upvoted as usual, but most of that were not really things that in retrospect ruined the game. In general, I think the response to each individual diary was decently accurate to how the eventual response at release was to what was being covered in each respective diary.
Johan's "No"
Vs
Wiz's "We are actively discussing it"
 
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Johan's "No"
Vs
Wiz's "We are actively discussing it"

CK3 as well. I remember one DD not going down well, & the developers looked at it again, & later changed it. Cannot remember what it was though. Wiz has the same mindset, & would actually look at something that was controversial, & see if it could be improved.
 
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CK3 as well. I remember one DD not going down well, & the developers looked at it again, & later changed it. Cannot remember what it was though. Wiz has the same mindset, & would actually look at something that was controversial, & see if it could be improved.
Vassal contracts, wasn't it?
 
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Well, that's the thing, EU4 expansions have destroyed the game by making it so bloated an inconsistent with itself, but people never complain about it.

That's because most people don't go beyond the mindset of "new content for the game, great!".

We need more people on the forums that analyse and criticize the development and design of the games. Devs need feedback, not just hype nonsense.
Bruh 9/10 forum posts in eu4 is how we either need eu5 or why my favorite country sucks but should be better. Its true tho that most of the dev diaries are received well, the only one that weren't were those about the new "tall" features in leviathan. And I'd say concentrade dev is the only bad mechanic from that dlc, with the other tall features just beeing bad balance wise. If it wouldn't be a buggy mess its pretty great otherwise.
 
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IndigoRage

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Yes, and Imperator came out perfect because everyone 'respectfully disagreed' their hearts out.
I don't get your angle on this one. You're actively arguing against the premise that fan concerns are worth anything.
 

JBolt

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Okay, I just listened to that Nurse Reno guy say that developers answering questions is a “corporate trick” meant to “overload you with information” so you don’t notice POPs aren’t really POPs.

Sorry, these guys are dumbasses.
Lol, you’ve already fallen for Vic3 before it’s even come out. Look, I want Vic3 to be great, but people on these forums saying “the UI is so great” and “it’s fine for Laissez-Faire to not exist” just because Paradox says it (so it has to be the right way to make the game) is dumb. And the Nurse Reno guy intentionally clarified by saying right after: “I’m just wearing a tinfoil hat, take this with a grain of salt.” Are you intentionally trying to cherry-pick that hard, that you ignore everything valuable that was discussed by these OGs of Vic2? Some of them have been playing the game since Victoria 2 was released.
 
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JBolt

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Yes, the one guy who seemed to have actually read the dev comments did say that. It had zero impact on the discussion and received zero follow up or elaboration.
Dude, I’ve been reading through these comments and... cool off. Vic3 is a year plus off, it’s not one camp or another who are going to fight each other. Everyone wants VIC3 to be good, but everyone will also have their own idea of how to get there. None of this warrants going so overboard as to get all factional like what you basically seem to be doing.
 
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Lord Lambert

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Can I ask you guys a question? Did you follow Imperator Rome’s development?

Because I did, and I remember all this unconditional support hype
Why are you lying? Several of the earliest dev diaries had a massive amount of negative reactions on them. Unconditional support hype? I'm not even gonna call this ignorance it's simply a lie.
 
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