Canterbury Cathedral as a pilgrimage site

[GeorgieBest]

This is maybe a slight oversight, but in the livestream the devs are at the year 1070, and one of the options for pilgrimage sites was Canterbury Cathedral. Canterbury Cathedral, whilst a historic christian site in Britain, only became a popular destination for pilgrims after Thomas Becket was murdered there and subsequently sainted, in 1170.

 

[Zhetone]

yeah it shouldn't be a pilgrimage site in the game at all, unless they add a post-1170 start

 

[Pied-Noir]

This is maybe a slight oversight, but in the livestream the devs are at the year 1070, and one of the options for pilgrimage sites was Canterbury Cathedral. Canterbury Cathedral, whilst a historic christian site in Britain, only became a popular destination for pilgrims after Thomas Becket was murdered there and subsequently sainted, in 1170.

As a compromise; Instead of removing it as a holy site, they could make an 1187 bookmark in which it would be accurate. Everybody wins.

 

[vyshan]

what holy site should replace Canterbury?

 

[Pied-Noir]

what holy site should replace Canterbury?

Holywell, Lindisfarne and Iona should all work okay.

 

[CyberianK]

what holy site should replace Canterbury?

theres so many I wouldn't be able to choose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_pilgrimage_sites

is there a list of which sites are currently in?

 

[vyshan]

theres so many I wouldn't be able to choose https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_pilgrimage_sites

is there a list of which sites are currently in?

For Catholics the holy sites are: Santiago, Rome, Jerusalem, Cantebury and Cologne from what I can tell anyways.

 

[BrokenSky]

what holy site should replace Canterbury?

If they had a more dynamic system for holy sites, potentially they wouldn't need anything to replace it - Catholicism might just have fewer holy sites in the earlier start dates (or else have more of its holy sites in the east).

 

[Tuo]

If they had a more dynamic system for holy sites, potentially they wouldn't need anything to replace it - Catholicism might just have fewer holy sites in the earlier start dates (or else have more of its holy sites in the east).

A more dynamic system for holy sites would be great, but would require starting several other systems from scratch (such as pagan reformation - though I feel fixed temple sites never made much sense for some of them in the first place), and I imagine would be quite difficult to balance. It would be a very ambitious goal, to say the least.

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

Glastonbury might make more sense as an early medieval Holy Site - it's got (legendary) ties to Joseph of Arimathea and the grail (although these only really become big when Arthurian legends start being pushed).

On the other hand, Canterbury was the (nominal) centre of Roman Christianity in Britain long before the Thomas a'Becket incident, and so has *some* place as a major site if they want to place one in Britain.

 

[Rock Lord]

Are the pilgrimage sites all the same as the Catholic Holy Sites? It seems there was only five options.

 

[wilcoxchar]

If the game is going to cover the period of 867-1453 and have static holy sites, it's necessary for there to be some abstraction and have some things that were later in the time period that might not have been the case earlier. Canterbury is by far the most well known Catholic holy site in the British Isles and was one for almost half the time period the game covers. That's a fine abstraction to make while static holy sites are a thing.

 

[Reidy]

I'd personally rather there be cultural holy sites that give more local bonuses. for instance if a Scottish lord is going on pilgrimage then they would gain Local opinion bonuses with Scots lords and clergy by going to Iona. same with English/Anglo lords going to lindisfarne. could justify it as the Lord/lady paying homage to his or her local clergy and history.

Obviously its more gamey, but it would add a little bit more of a 'choice' of whether to go on a long journey to say Rome/Cologne (and pleasing say the Pope) or simply to go to the local site to please your neighbours,

 

[Tuo]

I'd personally rather there be cultural holy sites that give more local bonuses. for instance if a Scottish lord is going on pilgrimage then they would gain Local opinion bonuses with Scots lords and clergy by going to Iona. same with English/Anglo lords going to lindisfarne. could justify it as the Lord/lady paying homage to his or her local clergy and history.

Obviously its more gamey, but it would add a little bit more of a 'choice' of whether to go on a long journey to say Rome/Cologne (and pleasing say the Pope) or simply to go to the local site to please your neighbours,

The problem with that is that every faith has holy sites, and it would seem a faith that can do pilgrimages can be made from any faith - and a faith can be followed in any region, with any culture. So, not only you'd need regional holy sites for, say, Christian faiths in Tibet, but you'd also need regional holy sites for Suomenusko faiths in sub-Saharan Africa, and for any and every combination of faiths and cultural regions.

 

[Reidy]

The problem with that is that every faith has holy sites, and it would seem a faith that can do pilgrimages can be made from any faith - and a faith can be followed in any region, with any culture. So, not only you'd need regional holy sites for, say, Christian faiths in Tibet, but you'd also need regional holy sites for Suomenusko faiths in sub-Saharan Africa, and for any and every combination of faiths and cultural regions.

Ahhh very good point, i didnt think of that.

 

[BrokenSky]

A more dynamic system for holy sites would be great, but would require starting several other systems from scratch (such as pagan reformation - though I feel fixed temple sites never made much sense for some of them in the first place), and I imagine would be quite difficult to balance. It would be a very ambitious goal, to say the least.

Yes probably. If they did add it it'd probably be a major feature in an expansion/update, but it's worth mentioning in the conversation because the problem of holy sites becoming more or less relevant over the time period isn't unique to catholic (especially once history starts diverging) and it's probably the most complete solution to the problem.

 

[Elm0__]

The problem with that is that every faith has holy sites, and it would seem a faith that can do pilgrimages can be made from any faith - and a faith can be followed in any region, with any culture. So, not only you'd need regional holy sites for, say, Christian faiths in Tibet, but you'd also need regional holy sites for Suomenusko faiths in sub-Saharan Africa, and for any and every combination of faiths and cultural regions.

The solution for this problem would be to include basic "local pilgrimage" decision which could be left intentionally vague (to accomodate for uncommon religion/region connections like Finnish pagans in Timbuktu) and add in special cases with more flavor for historically accurate pilgrimage sites.