Can't use CIC from exports to acquire resources?

[jamesd]

Just wanted to check if this is working properly.

Playing as Cuba I was receiving 9 CIC from trade and had nothing to build in my territory except forts which didn't seem particularly useful. I decided to trade for Aluminium and Oil to relieve my resource deficits, but wasn't allowed to. I had previously traded away 2 CIC to get some Steel and that was all the CIC I had left over from my own territory after allowing for civil needs. Seeing that we're using CIC as a proxy for money, it seems strange that a player can't use receipts from exports to purchase imports.

 

[Dalwin]

That is indeed working as designed. I think there is even a tool tip in game which is clear on the matter.

What you can do is to use all the CIC from exports to construct things, even another CIC with which you could import something of you have enough free slots.

 

[jamesd]

Well OK then, I'll repeat ...

"Seeing that we're using CIC as a proxy for money, it seems strange that a player can't use receipts from exports to purchase imports."

and then add it to the list of things about the game that are not intuitive.

It's only likely to come up in games with minors that are rich in rare resources and don't have many states, Cuba and Venezuela are the only ones coming to mind at the moment.

 

[SpeedKatMcNasty]

Its a change that was made for multiplayer. Extreme factory trading and minor buffing were cancer mechanics that the fix helped relieve slightly.

 

[Beethoven]

It actually is bugged. It is true and legitimate that factories you receive for trade should not count as factories you are able to trade away, but there is nonetheless a problem - if you trade from another country, that doesn't keep how many factories they can trade away constant (as it should). Instead, it actually decreases them.

This is particularly an issue for countries with high consumer-goods requirements, such as USA. A good way to sabotage the Allies if you are playing Axis can even be to trade with the USA a lot early in the game while the US has the Great Depression.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ries-for-trade-calculation-is-bugged.1000233/

 

[adam_grif]

It actually is bugged. It is true and legitimate that factories you receive for trade should not count as factories you are able to trade away, but there is nonetheless a problem - if you trade from another country, that doesn't keep how many factories they can trade away constant (as it should). Instead, it actually decreases them.

This is particularly an issue for countries with high consumer-goods requirements, such as USA. A good way to sabotage the Allies if you are playing Axis can even be to trade with the USA a lot early in the game while the US has the Great Depression.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ries-for-trade-calculation-is-bugged.1000233/

While I've noticed it screwing me over as USA in single player even, could you elaborate on the mechanics? I don't fully understand how it works vs how it should work.

 

[Beethoven]

While I've noticed it screwing me over as USA in single player even, could you elaborate on the mechanics? I don't fully understand how it works vs how it should work.

Basically, if someone trades with you, the civ factory that they trade to you gets counted into your consumer goods requirement:

The game then calculates how many factories you can trade away by subtracting your consumer goods requirement from your total amount of actual civ factories that you have (i.e. actual factories that are physically built in your country, not counting any civs you receive from trade).

And this is the problem - the factories you receive from trade are counted against you in determining how many factories you can trade away, so that if you receive too much trade, it can actually sabotage you.



Here is a simple example, which corresponds to the situation of the USA at the start of the 1936 scenario. You are USA. You have:

1) 128 of your own civs physically in your country.
2) 40 factories from trade to Latin American countries and other countries that like to trade with you.
3) A 70% consumer goods requirement (40% for undisturbed isolation plus 30% for Great Depression).
4) 10 military factories.

The game then calculates your consumer goods requirement counting both the 128 of your own factories and the 40 factories you are getting from trade, as well as your 10 military factories.

So it calculates your consumer goods requirement as (128 + 40 + 10) * .7 = 124.6

It then calculates how many factories you have available for trade by subtracting that 124.6 from your 128 own civs:

128 - 124.6 = 3.4 , rounds to 3. So the game only lets you trade for 3 resources.


Instead, what the game *should* do is not to count the 40 factories you are receiving from trade against you (via the consumer goods requirement) for purposes of calculating how many of your own factories you can trade away. It should instead calculate this:

128 - 124.6 * (128 + 10) / (128 + 40 + 10) = 31.4 , rounds to 31.

So you should be able to trade away 31 factories, but the bug is taking 28 of those away from you, and only letting you trade away 3.



So in general form, the correct formula for how many factories you should be able to trade away is:

owned_civs - consumer_goods_requirement_stock * (owned_civs + mils) / (owned_civs + civs_received_from_trade + mils)

 

[adam_grif]

Hmm I get the issue. Basically it's that it counts towards consumer goods even though it's a sort of phantom factory that can't itself be used to trade. I'm assuming domestic factories are counted towards filling consumer goods before imported ones are, if they are at all.