Can't press claims against our Holy Order - Need help

[Wolfmaster1979]

I can't figure out why I can't press his claim against our Holy Order... When I highlight the greyed out text box "Declare War" it tells me that I need to have a claim.. but yet, the highlighed box tells me that I can press his "De jure" claim... So I am lost..

Can someone explain to me why I can't declare war on the leader of our holy order, who holds land that belongs to me??
(or is this a bug???)

 

[yezhanquan]

Is the Holy Order vassalised under any other liege?

 

[Wolfmaster1979]

As far as I know, they are not vassal ed by anyone...

I also went to every Kingdom who gave them a Barony and had them kick them out (myself included) and it still doesn't let me declare war on them.

 

[yezhanquan]

If the leader of the holy order is unlanded, you cannot declare war. Same issue with not being able to declare war on the Papacy once the Pope is unlanded.

 

[Wolfmaster1979]

If the leader of the holy order is unlanded, you cannot declare war. Same issue with not being able to declare war on the Papacy once the Pope is unlanded.

As far I can tell he is landed as seen here:

 

[Drake_Hound]

Did you hire him and try to offer vassilisation ?

 

[yezhanquan]

It's a ducal de jure claim, so you must be holding the duchy title itself, or your vassal is the one holding the duchy title. May we take a look at the shot when you try to declare war?

 

[Wolfmaster1979]

Did you hire him and try to offer vassilisation ?

I am not able to vassilisage him as seen here:

It's a ducal de jure claim, so you must be holding the duchy title itself, or your vassal is the one holding the duchy title. May we take a look at the shot when you try to declare war?

 

[yezhanquan]

On vassalizing holy orders, being an emperor helps.

I am honestly stumped, but since the holy order has some counties, I will suggest that you vassalise it.

 

[Drake_Hound]

Yup you definetly need higher postive opnion and give him grounds and counties that are in your de jure

So his title becomes tied to your dejure , instead of tied to the landless capital (which he will always default too if no holdings) . Vassalising isn't as easy , just offer it , that he says no , can be overcome , unless I am king !

So also remember prestige and levy are taken into effect and his term of service .
(so your long reign , and his reign in your service , usually 10 year , varagian guard have a special event for vassalisation)

 

[Wolfmaster1979]

But I really do not want to vassage him, all I really want to be able to do is declare war on him, so that I can get the 3 countries that he holds so that I can create Greece, give it to a family member and grant them independance...

If I can not declare war on him, would the AI do it? For example, I form Greece, and release it (making it independant), would the AI declare war on the holy order to get the remaining lands?

 

[yezhanquan]

In your case, give the leader a duchy that is de jure part of your kingdom, and raise his opinion of you. I see that he is a close member of your dynasty, so there might be issues like title claimant and the like.

No way of telling. Once the kingdom is in the AI's hands, it's up to the machine.

 

[Wolfmaster1979]

This is justing freaknig annoying now...

I was able to faberciate a claim on the country and only after that could I delcare war on him!! WTF?!?!
I really do not understand it. Why was I not able to press my duchy claim and yet I am able to declare war on him ONLY AFTER I fabercated a claim????
Can someone please explain this to me, because I am completely lost here...

 

[yezhanquan]

Is this 2.1.5.3? If it is, you might want to make a bug report.

 

[Wolfmaster1979]

Is this 2.1.5.3? If it is, you might want to make a bug report.

I am playing 2.1.4

 

[Drake_Hound]

Cause the duchy title is not tied to his de jure you wanted !

It is a holy order and mercenary title , not a country title !
So it makes perfectly sense , with only a duchy title you can't declare war .
When you fabricated the county claim , he accepted the declaration of war .

Think this is also earlier version of the games , infact even earlier they just double the title instead of now removing the titles .

 

[Dryhad]

Cause the duchy title is not tied to his de jure you wanted !

It is a holy order and mercenary title , not a country title !
So it makes perfectly sense , with only a duchy title you can't declare war .
When you fabricated the county claim , he accepted the declaration of war .

Think this is also earlier version of the games , infact even earlier they just double the title instead of now removing the titles .

Are you trying to say that you can only press de jure claims against de jure rulers? Because that makes no sense. The issue here is the game claims he has a de jure ducal casus belli but then doesn't allow him to declare war. The target's title should have nothing to do with it.

 

[Drake_Hound]

It is a mercenary title , same as you would try to claim pope title or any other king titles that are not really tied into a de jure .

Example dethrone the king of navarre in a holy war pre 2.1.3 and he kept his title , even if you could create another king of Navarra title once you control the 3 counties , he didn't lose his .
But you can't issue a claim for his title . Cause it is not connected in anyway to the duchy anymore .

example just use the console and give e_britannia to a woman in 867 . She will stay in your court , you can marry her and she will pay tax , but just can't raise troops or be called a vassale .

To make her a free floating vassal with troops and other stuff , you need to go more complicated to keep her in your court but doable , well I done it

Now what does this has to do , is that his claim for the duchy , was that the duchy wasn't hold as primary title . The mercenary title was hold as primary title , which you cannot remove from them , cause it is landless .
So you can't declare a war for it .