Can't offer vassilation

[unmerged(27602)]

As Brandenburg in the 1419 campaign.

I and Saxony...

are in the same alliance
have the same religion
have a royal marriage
are both at peace

But it simply wont let me even offer vassilation.

Whats the deal?

Thanks.

 

[unmerged(31425)]

As Brandenburg in the 1419 campaign.

I and Saxony...

are in the same alliance
have the same religion
have a royal marriage
are both at peace

But it simply wont let me even offer vassilation.

Whats the deal?

Thanks.

Do you have 190+ relations?

 

[the_genius]

Check the Diplomacy FAQ by Lawkeeper.. great work.. there are the requirements for diplovassalizing, do a checklist

 

[unmerged(10426)]

Are they vassals of someone else?

 

[unmerged(27602)]

We are +190 relations

Saxony is not the vassal of another

 

[unmerged(10426)]

It may be because you're not sufficently 'big' enough to realistically offer vassalisation to them.

From Lawkeeper's FAQ:

- you need stronger economy (sidenote : it appears from recent discussions that trade does not enter in the determination of 'stronger economy' - to be followed).

I also suspect that the number of provinces you have has something to do with it.

 

[unmerged(27602)]

3 to 2, I guess you're right.

 

[unmerged(10426)]

There's your problem then. Get five or six provinces and the option will probably crop up.

 

[unmerged(33557)]

Casus Belli?

 

[unmerged(10426)]

What?

 

[Truchses]

The size shoud not be a problem. If you are economically weak and/or have few provinces, then Saxony might refuse. But this is only considered once you offer alliance. So you should at least be able to click the menu point. Some days ago I saw 2 province Austria vassalising 2 province Bayern. Obviously the AI gets a big bonus.

Some things are hardcoded. Austria is not allowed to diplo-vassalise Brandenburg, though you don't get ever notified about it. The menu point is clickable, but Brandenburg will just always refuse. There might similar things with Brandenburg and Saxony.

 

[unmerged(10426)]

Na. I've definetley been unable to even offer vassalisations on previous ocassions when I've met all the requirements, and the only cause I could see was that I was more or less on par, or inferior compared to the target in terms of power.

It's definetley a factor. Try playing as one of the German minors and try to set yourself up to diplo-vassalise Austria or France; The option won't even appear.

 

[unmerged(5707)]

Na. I've definetley been unable to even offer vassalisations on previous ocassions when I've met all the requirements, and the only cause I could see was that I was more or less on par, or inferior compared to the target in terms of power.

It's definetley a factor. Try playing as one of the German minors and try to set yourself up to diplo-vassalise Austria or France; The option won't even appear.

As it shouldn't.... Great Powers vassalize Punk Powers, not vice versa. If you want to vassalize Austria from Germany, you better have created Greater Prussia (and then some) or why would they want to submit to you?

 

[unmerged(10426)]

That's my point, boyo.

 

[unmerged(32970)]

Some things are hardcoded. Austria is not allowed to diplo-vassalise Brandenburg, though you don't get ever notified about it. The menu point is clickable, but Brandenburg will just always refuse. There might similar things with Brandenburg and Saxony.

Not so, I DV'd and then DA'd most of the HRE states, including Brandenburg, in my last Austria game.

 

[DSYoungEsq]

So much here that is compeletly incorrect. Hard to know where to begin.

If the option is greyed out, it means you don't meet the minimum criteria for a vassalization, period. Read the Diplomacy FAQ to see what that includes.

If you believe you have all requirements met, and the option is still greyed out, you are missing a requirement.

Economic size is one of the criteria. In a pair of nations, one more powerful than the other economically, the option will be greyed out for the less economically powerful nation. I haven't tested to see what happens with essentially equal nations. But load up a modified GC with Scotland and France at peace, having a RM, and relations of 200. Scotland can't even offer, France can.

 

[von Rosen]

Check if this is in the save file:

alliance = {
id = { type = 4712 id = xxxxxx }
type = vassalization
startdate = { year = xxxx month = january day = x }
expirydate = { year = xxxx month = january day = x }
participant = { SAX }
}

If so, they are vassals of themselves and cannot be vassalized.
Remove that code from the file if you find it.

 

[unmerged(33799)]

As Brandenburg in the 1419 campaign.

I and Saxony...

are in the same alliance
have the same religion
have a royal marriage
are both at peace

But it simply wont let me even offer vassilation.

Whats the deal?

Thanks.

What year is it?

I had a similar problem with vassalizing Saxony once playing Brandenburg. MA with them and Palatinate, RMs, 190+, the works... On AGCEEP they usually get poland as vassals... after that forget it... Even if you own most of northern germany and a kicka** economy, they will still say no...

On vanilla don't know if it happens, but anyway check if they have any vassals... it might be it... or like Truchses said, some things are hardcoded...

regards

 

[Truchses]

As it shouldn't.... Great Powers vassalize Punk Powers, not vice versa. If you want to vassalize Austria from Germany, you better have created Greater Prussia (and then some) or why would they want to submit to you?

So much here that is compeletly incorrect. Hard to know where to begin.

If the option is greyed out, it means you don't meet the minimum criteria for a vassalization, period. Read the Diplomacy FAQ to see what that includes.

If you believe you have all requirements met, and the option is still greyed out, you are missing a requirement.

Economic size is one of the criteria. In a pair of nations, one more powerful than the other economically, the option will be greyed out for the less economically powerful nation. I haven't tested to see what happens with essentially equal nations. But load up a modified GC with Scotland and France at peace, having a RM, and relations of 200. Scotland can't even offer, France can.

This might apply in many cases, maybe in most cases, but not always. I had different experiences.

Again, as I already wrote above:

1) Playing Austria with most german provinces, Brandenburg never accepted my alliance offer. I had to DoW and force vassalise them.

2) AI 2-province Austria diplo-vassalised AI 2-province Bavaria. Surely in this case Austria has neither more provinces nor more economic might.

Your claims, that majors vassalise minors and economic might is the criteria, are obviously not true, at least not in every case. If the game engine is expected to work as you say, then it is obviously broken.

 

[unmerged(5707)]

I didnt mean that major powers automatically got to vassalize minor powers. Many times, they were quite happy to be their own masters, and you have to convince them. Arguments that work best seem to be blowing down their walls, burning their cities, raping their women, stealing their possessions, lopping off their heads, etc......