Can't Negotiate Peace without losing land?(Glitch)

[xGhost4000x]

Hi, this could be a problem with the game or the mod(DVIP) or I could just be me misunderstanding how "Sue for Peace" works.

Anyway, the Duchy of Genoa is done for, time for peace, however when I negotiate for Peace he ALWAYS gets Castello Branco from me. Even though he doesn't have a claim. Screenshots below. Any ideas?

Also, fun fact, the Duke of Genoa is my vassal, yet we are at war?

EDIT: Wow, the pics are big, sorry.

EDIT: I have tried not forcing him to recognize and leaving it alone but he still takes it. I've also tried taking it from him afterwords and while he does accept my demand it pisses of my other vassals, about 20 vassals flip out if I do that...

 

[pingupower]

I think it is because of your warscore. Demanding him to recognise you as his liege take a lot of warscore.

 

[Snaake]

Yes, you should conquer his whole demesne, then you get to dictate the terms of his surrender, and warscore only affects your prestige gain/loss.

And anyway, he does have a claim on Castelo Branco. "Antonio d'Este [the Duke of Genoa] has a legitimate claim on the following titles: Count of Holland and Count of Castelo Branco and Count of Trent and Count of Smyrna and Duke of Lombardia."

Anyway, if you're not able to conquer his whole demesne, i'd probably agree to peace with him (with vassalisation preferably), recognise as at most one of the titles you both have claims on (Castel Branco and Duke of Genoa). That way you have a legitimate Casus Belli for him, can rebuild your armies and prepare, and then DoW him again later, when you can defeat him (and the 100 prestige hit for DoW for someone with a peace treaty shouldn't be too bad if you manage to take his whole demesne, the warscore should be high enough for you to gain most of it back). Or you can wait until one of you dies, the -100 prestige for DoW during peace treaty should go away then.

Castelo Branco isn't that rich of a province that you'd want to keep it at all costs...

 

[pingupower]

Or you just don't force him to abandon his claim on castel Branco. Its yours anyway.

 

[Snaake]

I thought the problem was exactly that if he didn't force them to abandon the Castelo Branco claim, Genoa would get it. Although that would imply that the Genoans had successfully sieged CB...

 

[unmerged(133776)]

I agree with the original OP, there is a bug in the game in certain circumstances. I find that if I'm at war with a vassal who is STILL my vassal, then the game does odd things. (FE - If he has a claim on my King title, even tho I win and if I force him to recognize me as the rightful King or force him to give up any claim, he ends up with that title). In this instance, the Duke of Genoa only has the one province, so it shouldn't matter what the War/Peace score is, once he's lost, he is suppose to accept anything offered him.

The only way around this bug that I've found so far, is never to ask for anything. Offer a White Peace only (not even that vassalization offer, as he is ALREADY your vassal). Once peace is accepted, he remains your vassal.

 

[jordarkelf]

What options are you exactly chosing in the peace treaty menu? Are you sure you're not accidentally giving up YOUR claim on CB, thus granting it to him?

 

[xGhost4000x]

Sorry for the confusion, I have taken all of his Demesne(spl) and have click the "Force him to recognize me as the rightful count" button but when peace goes through he still gets it. I have tried it multiple times always happens. The only way to avoid it is to accept his demands. Which is what I did. (He pays me 20 gold and no changes to territory for either.)

 

[xGhost4000x]

I agree with the original OP, there is a bug in the game in certain circumstances. I find that if I'm at war with a vassal who is STILL my vassal, then the game does odd things. (FE - If he has a claim on my King title, even tho I win and if I force him to recognize me as the rightful King or force him to give up any claim, he ends up with that title). In this instance, the Duke of Genoa only has the one province, so it shouldn't matter what the War/Peace score is, once he's lost, he is suppose to accept anything offered him.

The only way around this bug that I've found so far, is never to ask for anything. Offer a White Peace only (not even that vassalization offer, as he is ALREADY your vassal). Once peace is accepted, he remains your vassal.

Yes, that is exactly what is happening. I take it then the only fix is not to demand anything. Odd glitch, and I'm glad I caught it before another autosave. Would have been embarrassing losing my capital without noticing.

What options are you exactly chosing in the peace treaty menu? Are you sure you're not accidentally giving up YOUR claim on CB, thus granting it to him?

Exactly what is shown in the screen shots. Yet he still gets the province.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Anyway, the Duchy of Genoa is done for, time for peace, however when I negotiate for Peace he ALWAYS gets Castello Branco from me. Even though he doesn't have a claim. Screenshots below. Any ideas?

Well he does have a claim on it, I can see the CoA of Castello Branco on his charactersheet.

I think the problem comes from the fact that he is your vassal and you are at war with him.

What happens if you just choose the option to force-vassalize him and don't give up your claim on Genoa and don't accept his claim on Castello Branco (so both those buttons are grey) ?

 

[xGhost4000x]

Well he does have a claim on it, I can see the CoA of Castello Branco on his charactersheet.

I think the problem comes from the fact that he is your vassal and you are at war with him.

What happens if you just choose the option to force-vassalize him and don't give up your claim on Genoa and don't accept his claim on Castello Branco (so both those buttons are grey) ?

Sorry I can't test it anymore, I already saved past that point. All I did was wait for him to offer me a white peace. It also probably would have worked if I offered him one. I don't think I need to worry about Vassalizing him since he is already my vassal.

 

[Lorehead]

I've encountered the same glitch. I've come to call this the Eurabia bug, because most often it strips my primary title, and the Kingdom of France changes its name to Arabia. The way this works for me is that, when I force the other party to give up a claim on one of my titles, the game mistakenly cedes that title to him. It does not seem to be limited to cases where I'm at war with someone who's still my vassal, or who becomes my vassal while at war with me (i.e. a count who seizes his duke's title and remains at war against his king). (Edit: see my correction below.) My last game was one where I continued for centuries after I conquered the map, so all of the wars I've fought recently were by definition with vassals who rebelled. I therefore am not sure whether or not the bug occurs in other cases. This bug is reproducible if I save after winning the war and renegotiate the terms of surrender, but usually is not if I load an earlier save and win the war again.

One workaround is to let the other lord keep all his claims; this in fact maximizes my prestige gain. If I've taken all his land and titles, his dynasty will probably either die out or lose their claims because they're nobodies. Another, as I mentioned above, is to go back to an earlier save. Finally, you could remove the claim from your savefile.

 

[Lorehead]

It does not seem to be limited to cases where I'm at war with someone who's still my vassal, or who becomes my vassal while at war with me (i.e. a count who seizes his duke's title and remains at war against his king).

I'd like to correct my faulty recollection here. I started up a new game as William the Conqueror to see if I could reproduce this bug, and I could. In 1072, the Count of Northumberland declared war on me to reclaim the title of Duke of Northumberland. The peace deal worked normally. I then edited a save game from the end of the war to make ENGL the liege of C052. I could still force him to cede his lands, but making him recognize me as Duke of Northumberland made him the Duke of Northumberland instead.

I can only assume that, when I've encountered this bug in the past, a rebellious vassal became my vassal again without my noticing it, such as by a count gaining a duke title still pledged to me.

 

[Nick B II]

Guys, the bug isn't the peace deal. The bug is that it is possible to be at war with a vassal.

When that happens the least gamey course of action is actually to cheat. Because if you don't the little twit will refuse all peace offers, and you'll get a) thousands of prestige due to a bug, or b) titles due to a bug.

Hit F12.

Type byzantine

Hit enter to turn it on. Now all assassinations, peace treaties, etc. will always succeed.

Propose a white peace.

Wait for him to accept.

Type byzantiane and hit enter again (to turn it off).

Hit ctrl+F12 to get rid of the console.

Nick

 

[Lorehead]

Guys, the bug isn't the peace deal. The bug is that it is possible to be at war with a vassal.

When that happens the least gamey course of action is actually to cheat. Because if you don't the little twit will refuse all peace offers, and you'll get a) thousands of prestige due to a bug, or b) titles due to a bug.

This was not the case in my game. If I've misunderstood you, could you please clarify?

I went back to my savefile, in which I'd edited the rebel Count of Northumberland to be my vassal, and tested for a bug like you described. Ironically enough, on this playthrough, I wound up at war with my vassal legitimately: my daughter, whom I'd created Duchess of Lancaster, rebelled, I took her ducal title in the peace settlement, and that left me at war with my new vassal, the Count of Lancaster.

I did not use the Byzantine cheat and saw no bug such as you described. The Count of Lancaster offered me white peace almost immediately, and after I said no, he accepted a white peace offer from me. The Count of Northumberland offered the surrender of all his lands, which I accepted. In my previous test, I had made the same offer to him, and he accepted. Winning all three wars, then giving out two counties and two duchies to two of my daughters, left my prestige 95 higher than when I'd started, not thousands. The only new titles I gained were those I took in the peace agreements, and the only new claims I gained were those of my former vassals, when they declared war on me.

In short, the only glitch I've ever observed when I'm at war with my vassal is that I cannot extinguish his claims.

I wonder if we could script an event to free any vassal at war with his liege?

(Edit: Silly typo.)

 

[Lorehead]

The following patch appears to work properly with my savegame. I added it to lordship_events.txt. It causes vassals at war with their lieges to declare independence, and testing with the console shows that it does not trigger for other combatants.

##############################################################
# Workaround for a bug caused by war with a vassal - Lorehead
##############################################################

character_event = {
	id = 1990

	picture = "event_chancellor"

	trigger = {
		condition = { type = ruler }
		condition = { type = is_vassal }
		condition = { type = atwar }
		condition = { type = liege
			condition = { type = atwar }
			condition = { type = any_enemy
				condition = { type = is_receiver }
			 }
		}
	} 

	mean_time_to_happen = { days = 1 }

	action_a = { # I renounce my liege!
		ai_chance = 100
		effect = { type = independence }
		effect = { type = loyalty value = 1.0 }
		effect = { type = remove_trait for = this value = loyalist }
		effect = { type = remove_trait for = this value = rebellious }
	}
}

 

[Nick B II]

This was not the case in my game. If I've misunderstood you, could you please clarify?

I went back to my savefile, in which I'd edited the rebel Count of Northumberland to be my vassal, and tested for a bug like you discribed. Ironically enough, on this playthrough, I wound up at war with my vassal legitimately: my daughter, whom I'd created Duchess of Lancaster, rebelled, I took her ducal title in the peace settlement, and that left me at war with my new vassal, the Count of Lancaster.

I'm saying the fact that you are at war with a vassal (in this case Northumburland) is the bug. He should have gone independent or automatically made peace with you when his liege lost.

Given that the entire war is a bug you shouldn't be surprised when attempts to end the war fail to work as designed.

As for Byzantine strictly speaking you're right. It is theoretically possible for the AI to make white peace without the cheat. But given the AI's extreme hardheadedness, and frequent delusions of competence, IMO you're better off using Byzantine. Otherwise you risk wasting months with spammed peace offers.

But your event is a great idea for a new workaround. I don't know much about event coding, bnut it looks like it'd work to me.

Nick

 

[jordarkelf]

Lorehead, have you hacked my PC?

I have almost exactly the same event prepared for the next DVIP...

character_event = { # Bugfix - Release AI vassals at war with liege
	id = 23255
	picture = "event_chancellor"
	trigger = {
		condition = { type = ai }
		condition = { type = ruler }
		condition = { type = is_vassal }
		condition = { type = atwar }
		condition = { type = liege
			condition = { type = atwar }
			condition = { type = any_enemy
				condition = { type = is_receiver }
			}
		}
	}
	mean_time_to_happen = { months = 1 }
	action_a = {
		effect = { type = independence }
		effect = { type = loyalty value = 1.0 }
		effect = { type = remove_trait for = this value = loyalist }
		effect = { type = remove_trait for = this value = rebellious }
	}
}

Cheers

 

[Lorehead]

Lorehead, have you hacked my PC?

I refuse to answer, on the grounds that it may incriminate me.

I have almost exactly the same event prepared for the next DVIP...

But did you, before you saw mine?

Seriously, it's nice to see that a more experienced scripter approaced the problem the same way. It tells me my instincts weren't totally wrong. Good luck with the update!