Can't Make Francia or Hispania (details)

[unmerged(600321)]

I started as the Duke of Aquitaine. I converted to the Frankish culture group towards the start of the game (i.e. same Culture as Kingdom of France). Figured I would play a French/Spanish based empire for the new DLC. Previously, I never played France since the patch that added the new empires (only played Byzantine/HRE since the patch). I seem to be unable to make either Hispania or Francia despite having over 95% of the territory needed for both.

The issue is that I am unable to make the Kingdom of Birttany for Francia or the Kingdom of Andalasia for Hispania. To make Brittany, I need the celtic cultural group and to make Andalasia, I need the Arab cultural group. If I understand this right, I can only make Francia if I first convert to Celtish from Frankish, and I can only make Andalasia if I convert to Arab? Is there anyway for me to remain Frankish and still make either empire? If I convert culture now, I will have a ton of vassal issues to deal with, which is not really fun when 90% of my vassals are Frankish and I have a two empire sized realm to deal with.


Is there any easier way to make Francia or Andalasia, beside making one of my heirs celtic, and the heir after that Frankish after I make Francia (or Arabic for Hispania).

 

[justin6477]

Uh....

Andalusia is a Kingdom, while Francia is an Empire. You don't need all the Kingdoms to create an Empire, you just need 80% of their De Jure territory. Although Francia requires a Kingdom title that isn't within Francia's starting borders. Aragon is always a good candidate for that. Lotharingia is another great option. My personal thing is to try and make a De Jure empire into a single Kingdom before forming said Empire. If you have a mega-Kingdom, the smaller Kingdoms tend not to pick fights with you.

 

[Comradebot]

You don't need to make Brittany for Francia. I think the problem is you aren't meeting the requirement for Francia of having any kingdom outside of Francia.


With Hispania, I can only imagine you lack any of the proper cultures.

 

[unmerged(600321)]

Justin, I know that Andalusia and Brittany are Kingdoms while Hispania and Francia are empires. I did not realize you could make the Empires without the Kingdoms though. Thanks for the clarification.

I have Castille, Leon, France, Aquitaine, Portugal, Galicia, Navarra, and Aragon. I am missing some Burgundy counties for Francia (forgot about that). I have everything for Hispania but the culture. I was just shy of the 80%. Thanks!

 

[justin6477]

Justin, I know that Andalusia and Brittany are Kingdoms while Hispania and Francia are empires. I did not realize you could make the Empires without the Kingdoms though. Thanks for the clarification.

I have Castille, Leon, France, Aquitaine, Portugal, Galicia, Navarra, and Aragon. I am missing some Burgundy counties for Francia (forgot about that). I have everything for Hispania but the culture. I was just shy of the 80%. Thanks!

You'd be surprised how many people get things mixed up. You also weren't here for the all the threads talking about "gravel kind succession".

I will give one word of warning. The game really hates it when Empires have become Titular. I absorbed literally all of Hispannia into France (and Francia by extension), and then I thought I'd make myself titular Emperor of Hispannia and the game crashed when I looked up the title. As long as you don't look it up, you'll be fine. Also, do you have all those Kingdoms as in all of that territory or all of those Kingdoms as titles? If the latter, destroy the titles. De Jure drift is your friend.

edit: Strangely enough, the Latin Empire is titular yet the game doesn't decide to crap itself when you look it up.

 

[Dartheal]

You'd be surprised how many people get things mixed up. You also weren't here for the all the threads talking about "gravel kind succession".

I will give one word of warning. The game really hates it when Empires have become Titular. I absorbed literally all of Hispannia into France (and Francia by extension), and then I thought I'd make myself titular Emperor of Hispannia and the game crashed when I looked up the title. As long as you don't look it up, you'll be fine. Also, do you have all those Kingdoms as in all of that territory or all of those Kingdoms as titles? If the latter, destroy the titles. De Jure drift is your friend.

edit: Strangely enough, the Latin Empire is titular yet the game doesn't decide to crap itself when you look it up.

Can't spell gavelkind without "grave". 'Cause you gotta put your siblings in them to keep your land.

Also I'm glad that the Titular Empire Crash wasn't just from me. Makes me feel kinda better about losing a save over it.

 

[grisamentum]

Y
edit: Strangely enough, the Latin Empire is titular yet the game doesn't decide to crap itself when you look it up.

Because it starts empty. It's drifting ALL the land out and then trying to look it up that crashes it.

 

[unmerged(600321)]

You'd be surprised how many people get things mixed up. You also weren't here for the all the threads talking about "gravel kind succession".

I will give one word of warning. The game really hates it when Empires have become Titular. I absorbed literally all of Hispannia into France (and Francia by extension), and then I thought I'd make myself titular Emperor of Hispannia and the game crashed when I looked up the title. As long as you don't look it up, you'll be fine. Also, do you have all those Kingdoms as in all of that territory or all of those Kingdoms as titles? If the latter, destroy the titles. De Jure drift is your friend.

edit: Strangely enough, the Latin Empire is titular yet the game doesn't decide to crap itself when you look it up.

Ok, I went ahead and made Francia this morning. I was short a few territories for Francia earlier, while I had more than I needed for Hispania (but not the cultural group). I do have all the Kingdom titles, but I have not really had a problem with that in past games. What do you mean that the game crashes when you looked up the title? I looked up Hispania without any problems, I just can't make the title. Do you mean I should not create all the Kingdoms (e.g Castille, Aragon, Leon, etc) in Hispania? I have done this with Byzantine/HRE before without trouble, so I am probably misunderstanding what you mean.

 

[justin6477]

Ok, I went ahead and made Francia this morning. I was short a few territories for Francia earlier, while I had more than I needed for Hispania (but not the cultural group). I do have all the Kingdom titles, but I have not really had a problem with that in past games. What do you mean that the game crashes when you looked up the title? I looked up Hispania without any problems, I just can't make the title. Do you mean I should not create all the Kingdoms (e.g Castille, Aragon, Leon, etc) in Hispania? I have done this with Byzantine/HRE before without trouble, so I am probably misunderstanding what you mean.

You shouldn't create all the Kingdoms because all feudal vassals will get giant opinion maluses since they want your extra titles. Instead, you hold one Kingdom and drift all the duchies into it. If you control the entirety of a ducal territory (or your vassal does), it'll drift into your primary title. That renders the other Kingdoms titular. Titular titles give you the prestige of Kingdom titles, but with none of the headaches. Now that you've formed an empire though, most of your de jure drift will be the Kingdoms of Hispannia going into Francia.

So basically, my France was all of Francia (minus Upper Burgundy), along with Flanders and the entire Iberian peninsula. Hispania therefor had no de jure land. Nor did any of Hispania's Kingdoms. I think the reason the game crashed was because the title literally had no form requirements beyond being Iberian or Andalusian cultured, whereas the Latin Empire requires you to own Thrace and for the ERE to not exist.

 

[User29]

You shouldn't create all the Kingdoms because all feudal vassals will get giant opinion maluses since they want your extra titles. Instead, you hold one Kingdom and drift all the duchies into it. If you control the entirety of a ducal territory (or your vassal does), it'll drift into your primary title. That renders the other Kingdoms titular. Titular titles give you the prestige of Kingdom titles, but with none of the headaches. Now that you've formed an empire though, most of your de jure drift will be the Kingdoms of Hispannia going into Francia.

So basically, my France was all of Francia (minus Upper Burgundy), along with Flanders and the entire Iberian peninsula. Hispania therefor had no de jure land. Nor did any of Hispania's Kingdoms. I think the reason the game crashed was because the title literally had no form requirements beyond being Iberian or Andalusian cultured, whereas the Latin Empire requires you to own Thrace and for the ERE to not exist.

problem may be there is no capital province for spain?

 

[justin6477]

problem may be there is no capital province for spain?

Perhaps. If it required the duchy of Toledo or something, then maybe it'd work. I know that at least one mod uses titular Empires, so I imagine it's a case of the title not having certain requirements anymore.

 

[unmerged(494787)]

I'm not crashing when I look up titular Hispania. Titular titles still have a "Capital" defined in landed_titles.txt. Spain's happens to be the province of Toledo (since that's where Madrid is).

 

[justin6477]

I'm not crashing when I look up titular Hispania. Titular titles still have a "Capital" defined in landed_titles.txt. Spain's happens to be the province of Toledo (since that's where Madrid is).

Maybe they fixed it in a recent update.

I did this in.... 1.06 I think? Been a while.

 

[unmerged(494787)]

Possible, I suppose. If titular titles really do cause crashes without defined capitals, it would explain why every one has a defined capital. Easy enough to test, though I'm too lazy.