• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Derp

nice
69 Badges
Jan 28, 2011
2.041
1.589
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
In large empires I often go mercantilist. Most countries seem to start heavily mercantilist anyways and if you spam post offices your own CoTs will usually be so disproportionately valuable that there's very little point in investing in foreign CoTs or wasting slider moves.
 

The Blood Eagle

General
12 Badges
Feb 20, 2011
1.726
36
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • For the Motherland
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
Using your first click for free trade as holland is a big mistake since you can just take antwerpen and pass The Statute of Monopolies (which you'll want to do anyways) for a free slider move.

I disagree with you both. Use the 1st slider move towards decentralization and hope for the +2 base tax in Holland. I've managed to get it to 24 base and just rode the free slider events for the majority of the 1400s.
 

Pewt

Ask me about LOOM
65 Badges
Aug 20, 2011
2.624
18
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I disagree with you both. Use the 1st slider move towards decentralization and hope for the +2 base tax in Holland. I've managed to get it to 24 base and just rode the free slider events for the majority of the 1400s.
Hmm? You could still do that when following my advice.

That said, in the long run that would hurt your economy, not help it, unless you didn't colonize or expand at all.
 

grommile

Field Marshal
66 Badges
Jun 4, 2011
22.443
38.815
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • March of the Eagles
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Prison Architect
I've noticed this as well. I have a sneaky suspicion that someone at Paradox is a pretty hardcore libertarian.
Given that Decentralization has basically no meaningful benefits, this theory doesn't hold (much) water.
 

knul

General
17 Badges
Jan 15, 2006
2.412
3
  • Magicka
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
I disagree with you both. Use the 1st slider move towards decentralization and hope for the +2 base tax in Holland. I've managed to get it to 24 base and just rode the free slider events for the majority of the 1400s.

Given that event has only a 33% chance of firing and that going Centralised give much, much better bonusses, going Centralised is by far the superior move. The only question with going Centralised is when, as the chance for a big revolt is a major hurdle for small countries and that there are perhaps better slider moves to make (f.e. going Free Trade or Land for short term bonusses).
 

GAGA Extrem

Per Ardua Ad Astra
External QA
121 Badges
Mar 19, 2004
11.469
5.002
  • Semper Fi
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Dungeonland
  • East India Company Collection
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
Regarding Free Trade vs. Mercantilism:
It is mostly a singleplayer vs. multiplayer, small country vs. large country and dove vs. hawk issue.

A small country will always prefer free trade, since the bonus from mercantilism is usually negletible.
A very large country *might* prefer mercantilism, since the benefits from complete domination of own COTs can outweight the benefits from foreign ones.

Peaceful (or rather peaceful) players will prefer free trade, since their BB is low.
Warmongers will prefer mercantilism, since their BB will usually prevent them from trading outside their own COTs most of the time.

SP vs MP is a much more difficult issue. Free trade can be extremely powerful here, but it is much more dependant on your fellow players. In general, there are three things too keep an eye on:
(1) Trade embargoes: If other human players issue them in peace time, they can easily devestate your economy. Even more if several players come to an agreement to embargo you.
(2) Spies: Free traders are very vulnerable to spies - and coordinated spy action can be devestating. Removing the FoW during a player-vs-player war is an immense strategic advantage, popping up rebels can destroy retreating armies, cut off areas of a large country or simply force you to divert ressources to hunt them down. While the AI sucks at using spies, a skilled player can and *will* wreck havoc with them. Beware.
(3) Competition: If several other players go free trade, you can end up in a situation that makes it impossible to keep up with them. Competion can be very costly, up to the point were free trade is not viable anymore. If that happens you should either sign a trade agreement or go mercantilism.


Regarding Centralisation/Decenstralisation:
Always go for max centralisation unless you are a dirt cheap one province state that cannot trade at atll!
Higher tax modifier and increased inflation reduction are way more powerful than any bonus a decentralisation move can provide. The only reason to go decentralised would be that you have no other slider moves left, are at -5 centralised and you will get another step towards centralisation in the near future (by a decision, etc.).
 
Nov 19, 2009
448
0
Yes, which has made countries like Burgundy even more broken than before.

In every Paradox game I've ever played, the being laissez-faire bourgeouisie is almost always better, the more so the more the game progresses.

For example, HoI2: Free Market + Open Society makes you produce faster, cheaper and have less dissent and more manpower from occupied provinces.
EU3: Free Trade and Free Subjects makes you incredibly effective as a military and economic power.
The same is true for Victoria. Basically, whatever sliders make you sound more like America in 1880 are going to make you awesome.

The only exception is if you start out very far on the side of socialism or protectionism, in which case the middle-ground can often be so terrible and the journey so long as to make it worth just sticking with what you've got. But in a game the length of the EU3 grand campaign or Victoria it's pretty much always worth it to (Eventually) become more libertarian.

I rather disagree about Victoria.

Laissez Faire may be cheaper in the short run, but it results in a ton of horrible factories; even if you delete them, your capitalists tend to just rebuild the same factory over and over again. Virtually the only way to take a minor unindustrialized country (Wallachia, Brazil, etc) and get it into the top three is via Planned Economy/State Capitalism; it may cost more to get set up, but after all that's what loans are for. Gamey tactics make the gap even larger: you can manipulate tax rate to get a laissez faire party into power for a little while to build you free railroads, then go right back to State Capitalism.

America in 1880 would be Residence, or perhaps Limited Citizenship. In Victoria, Full Citizenship has huge advantages (not only can you convert non-national POPs, but it also speeds up the assimilation rate immensely). Really not much more to say; Full Citizenship is imbalanced enough that you can buy Poland from Russia, drain it almost completely of its population (and if you have everything else lined up, assimilate said population completely) within ~25 years, then sell it back so you don't have to bother protecting it. It also provides a big boost to immigration.

Political system -wise, the only benefits Democracy has over Constitutional Monarchy is the large drop in revolt risk. That is really insignificant though, as a well-managed empire should have little problems with revolt risk, especially after some reforms are passed. The advantages of Constitutional Monarchy however are pretty large: you can swap parties at will (if you're the right kind, you don't even suffer revolt risk) and deny vote rights. This makes it incredibly easy to get a good party into power, while democracies often struggle on that front. And it's not like Constitutional Monarchies can't get 100 plurality for the immigration bonus too.

IIRC, the major US parties have Pluralism as their religious policy (which is somewhat historical; Catholic hate was pretty big, but never on an official level), and that is in fact the religious policy you should be going for, although Secularized and Atheism work just as well.

And the last significant factor: reforms. You want to stay as far away from The Gilded Age as possible. Every reform provides a significant boost to immigration, and a third of them have very nice side-effects. Health Care increases population growth quite a bit; if you somehow manage to afford it early on, its benefits increase exponentially. Unemployment Benefits, afaik, only makes you pay for the POPs that are actually unemployed, making it often the most cost-effective way of reducing militancy. Furthermore, combined with a non-Moralism religious policy, it pretty much eliminates emigration. Pension Funds is nice too; while it doesn't do anything special, it's the only other reform that doesn't affect efficiency.


A Socialist, State Capitalist, Secularized, Full Citizenship, Brazilian Constitutional Monarchy with great Health Care, decent Unemployment Benefits, and decent Pension Funds performs far better than a historical 1880 US would. Despite the fact that Victoria gives a hard-coded advantage to countries with the USA tag.


Edit: Oops. I went a bit off-topic there.
 

Prodicus

Second Lieutenant
3 Badges
Jun 1, 2011
171
94
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
Given that Decentralization has basically no meaningful benefits, this theory doesn't hold (much) water.

I'm not sure about that. Remember, you're playing as your country's central government. Centralization would of course be great for the central government, but not necessarily for your country's people as a whole.

Anyway, who knows? It just seems like Paradox tends to represent laissez-faire policies far more sympathetically than other developers.
 

Derp

nice
69 Badges
Jan 28, 2011
2.041
1.589
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Victoria 2
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
I'm not sure about that. Remember, you're playing as your country's central government. Centralization would of course be great for the central government, but not necessarily for your country's people as a whole.

Anyway, who knows? It just seems like Paradox tends to represent laissez-faire policies far more sympathetically than other developers.
Well, it's hard to argue that L-F and similar systems weren't more productive and efficient than the more rigid economies of the time, but in Paradox games that doesn't necessarily translate into how good life is for your people. I mean, there's got to be a reason for those mass communist uprisings I always seem to get in V2 :p.