Cannot create any more objects of this type

[Doctor Machete]

Less than 20% of the player base have subscribed to this mod, of those there is no indication as to how many actually use it.


What the future will bring I don't know, but this is not a big enough number to address for now.

Between the three most popular 25-tiles unlocking mods there are 370.000 subscribers. Let’s assume conservatively 350.000 subs, and let’s say only 20% will hit the limits in the next few months, still they are 70.000 players, and these would be among the most loyal to the game, because the time invested. It would seem to me that 70k non casual players and very invested into the game, are pretty significant although being only a fraction of the total for a game. And that’s assuming the actual figure and only 20%.

Guys at CO, please bear in mind that quite possibly a significant majority of players will never see these limits. Don't do something you don't want to do (or think is pointless to do) just because a small but loud minority demands it. They will never be satisfied. I am not saying that removing the limits shouldn't be done at all, I'd just like to point out that there are far more urgent issues (and possible content extensions) that you should take into account before devoting your time to something that only a small number of players will actually notice/appreciate.

Limit removal/25 tile unlocking might have been a "big selling point" for a few people. Most didn't care, as long as overall moddability of the game and its assets was high.

I’m not saying limit removal should have priority over bug fixes or UI upgrades, for example, only that is a real issue many players will experience. I agree quite possibly a significant majority of players will never see these problems, I never said the contrary. What I do say is a significant minority of players will almost certainly hit many of the limits.

If you have a decent rig, not necessarily a very powerful one, chances you are going to (at least) try the 25-tiles mod, and if you do, is possible not hitting any limit in some maps but once you play in any map with lots of building space is very easy to hit building/road limits with enough time playing the same map. You don’t need to use all 25 tiles available, there are people hitting the limits with as low as only 11 tiles.

I never said limit removal itself has been a selling point, but the 25-tile mod and the building space it allows is. Also, do you think the possibility of a much much bigger city than SC2013 (and SC4) was not an important selling point, that is not something people who play this genre look for, really?, There is even a game called Cities XL (guess why the name)... and people played it despite being almost unplayable, with horrid performance and simulation. And of course, not to mention one of the most criticised characteristics of SC2013 (city size, again), not the only one but the most visible.

Another thing, I don’t see anything bad being very vocal about something I don’t like of the game. Just like many times I've spoken very highly of the things I like of the game I do the same for the things I don’t like. This limit issue is not the most important one in the game for me but is there and I think it will be more important as time passes.

 

[Greygor69]

Between the three most popular 25-tiles unlocking mods there are 370.000 subscribers. Let’s assume conservatively 350.000 subs, and let’s say only 20% will hit the limits in the next few months, still they are 70.000 players, and these would be among the most loyal to the game, because the time invested. It would seem to me that 70k non casual players and very invested into the game, are pretty significant although being only a fraction of the total for a game. And that’s assuming the actual figure and only 20%.

I'm not sure why you've argued me down from 20% using the mod and possibly hitting limits to only 5%.

It's very hard to make a business case for the devs to invest time and resources for such a low player base.

As you say the priority for this is very low

 

[Kronoz]

5 % would be 18.500 "hardcore" gamers which I imagine CO would not want to lose as fans. It would be a good business case.

...but numbers are probably smaller than that, judging from the amount of rage on the forums.

 

[Turjan]

This isn't fair to CO. This game was made so that a large base of people could play it. I didn't think my rig would play it, but it does. Not everyone has a large rig and you're not going to get a million buyers by making a game just for large rigs.

This isn't a fairness issue. To put it bluntly, the limit is there in order to limit support requests. That's understandable from a business point of view, but I as a player find this workaround a very shoddy one, particularly because, once you hit the limit, the city becomes unplayable. Which is one of the most infuriating things to experience in a city builder.

Personally, I wouldn't complain if the game just got slow at some point because my rig can't handle it anymore. I know this from SC4. There the solution is easy: go through your mods and prune some. Here, you can't do anything, not even be happy with how far you built and just change things in the city. The game won't let you.

 

[Turjan]

Less than 20% of the player base have subscribed to this mod, of those there is no indication as to how many actually use it.

Actiually, you don't need to subscribe to the mod to unlock 25 tiles. There's no need for it. You just have to look at one of the saves that were produced during the release period for the YouTube channels. If you then open your own map, you can just unlock those 25 tiles the YouTubers used. So, up to a few days ago, I never saw a need to subscribe to that mod.

 

[KnightHawkTFC]

This isn't fair to CO.

Huh?
My comment wasn't directed at "fairness" it was direct and to the point, that if you want it changed C/O are the best people to make that change at this point and just as I was suggesting they have responded they're unlikely to address it for a number of reasons, and the only thing that might change that is more requests for it. It is what it is, I answered the question asked that was directed toward me, there was no malice involved, just a simple response to a dead thread.

I note that you were on the forum for only shortly before release. This issue was very passionately argued about before release. For weeks and weeks CO refused to make the game modalable for more than nine tiles; only shortly before release did they agree; but they issued the caveat that they would not deal with any issues that users of mods that extended the nine tile limit would encounter. Look in the basement of the forum.

What? Actually I was around months before release, I only registered a few weeks before release. Why you're dragging 25 title maps into it is beyond me as people have hit certain limits in 9 titles. I don't know why you feel the need to be defensive about this.

Is it possible to have a limit monitoring mod?

I use mod-tools mod to check in on those limits while playing as I know what vars to monitor. It would be pretty easy to band together something that just monitored the various limits. Probably be a good addition to csl-stats or something similar.

 

[Turjan]

I use mod-tools mod to check in on those limits while playing as I know what vars to monitor. It would be pretty easy to band together something that just monitored the various limits. Probably be a good addition to csl-stats or something similar.

Is there a pointer somewhere where I can read up which variables those are?

 

[KnightHawkTFC]

Is there a pointer somewhere where I can read up which variables those are?

If you just looking to monitor if you're near common limits then here are some from my memory bank.

NetManager
---
m_lanecount
m_nodecount
m_segmentcount

BuildingManager
--
m_buildingcount

ZoneManager
--
m_blockcount

If you want to know details of the specific default limits you can probably find them buried in this thread on this topic that relates to my testing all the needed changes in 1.07, for 64k limits over 32k limits and really where I last left off in terms of working on this.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/please-higher-limits-for-roads.848726/page-3

 

[Turjan]

Thank you very much. It will be interesting to see where I am at the moment. This time, I chose a map with not too much land where you can build, but there's always this fear in the back of my mind that the next step may be the last. I'll see to get mod tools to work.

Edit: OK, that was easy. This will help with decisions.

 

[rwmiami]

KnightHawkTFC:

please reconsider getting the 64k mod to work for us users unable to comb through all the necessary files and changes. I know it's asking a lot, and perhaps not feasible distribution wise, but having a city 'die' without even a warning totally sucks.

Maybe an object counter to at least know where we're at?

Many of us would obviously appreciate it, as well as many more in the future.

 

[Turjan]

Maybe an object counter to at least know where we're at?

With ModTools, you can have something like that, as KnightHawkTFC mentioned above:

So here I see that I still have enough slots for a CBD, which I was not sure about.

 

[caracol]

I do have an answer... you probably won't like it though.
1) So very, very few people are hitting these limits
2) The people hitting these limits are going waaaay beyond the game's inherent design. CO already made it easy to mod the game up to 25 tiles and beyond, and here people are still asking for more. We like to make people happy, but we can't keep devoting time/resources to maxing out the game for a select few.
3) Changing the limits is NOT easy. You can't just flip a switch or add a "slider". Those limits are there for multiple technical reasons, which the game is based around
[...]
So it's not a priority, but I'm not saying it's not a possibility down the road. CO is always seeking to improve, and also to make modding easier. I don't expect this answer to make you happy, but I am being completely honest with you. As a player myself with a pretty good PC, I've hit the limits too and wish they could be raised. I don't let this stop me from enjoying the game, hope you can do the same =)

Thanks for the answers!
I endorse what some people are saying about point 1: we are a few, but we're probably the most loyal ones in the long run. So I understand that this is no priority. Points 2 and 3 are pretty obvious for me. But still, I hit the limit again with my last city, reaching 400k. The city is just wonderful and since the last update some limits were increased! So thank you for that!
The only limit I'm hitting now is the service/custom buildings limit. It really "kills" the city, which is a shame, but I'm still trying to plan so much ahead that this doesn't happen again.. I guess I got carried away with my trains.. So yes, I still enjoy my cities, but it honestly took me some weeks away from the game to start a new city since I hit the limits last time. And I think this will be happening more often.

Keep in mind that while most of the limits can, in theory, be altered, some limitations require a significant amount of work to change, which would take away time for fixing bugs or adding new features. Other limits may be technically possible to change, but might negatively affect the game in terms of performance or stability, or may break the game or mods in unpredictable ways.

Cities Skylines is a complex game. Even small changes can end up causing big problems in the end if we're not careful.

The question I've got left for you guys is: Would it be possible to make those limits moddable in an easier way, like the 25 tiles limit? And by possible I mean, is it doable with less effort than really changing them/let them "slide" or whatever?

Because there are other things like bugfixing which is far more important. I still see some traffic AI issues or at least possibilities to improve them which might be even a bigger game changer than those limits for now. So I really don't expect CO to fix this limit issue until the end of the year or even further down the road, but if there was a way to make it easier for someone to mod (KnightHawk already did some progress but I'm not into all those codes and a proper mod probably needs some help from CO as well) these limits without consuming much resources, it would really change the game for a small group of players. It would be like a new feature for me
Finally spend more than 100h on a city and max out every square meter there is..
And not to mention that by making it moddable, the user will be responsible for all the bugs and problems he encounters. I don't complain to you about Traffic ++ bugs, so I guess it's even a "safe" way to do it for everyone who really wants that 1 million city.

 

[MarkJohnson]

With ModTools, you can have something like that, as KnightHawkTFC mentioned above:

So here I see that I still have enough slots for a CBD, which I was not sure about.

Can you share how you did this with modtools? I have no clue how modtools work.

btw, your city looks nice, although it looks strange seeing all of those solar panels and satellite dishes on those old buildings. lol

 

[KnightHawkTFC]

@caracol
"and since the last update some limits were increased! So thank you for that!"
-----
Actually they haven't been touched.

As for what would make this at least slightly more modable I answered that partialy in the other thread where you asked it, though you can forget about 1.x ever having a slider, I doubt they'll invest the time needed for that sort of option, and I don't blame them.

@MarkJohnson
Mark - Install the mod-tools mod, activate it in game, use the explorer option to navigate the classes and find the var's mentioned and click 'watch' or add watch (I forget), then you can close the explorer and just toggle the watch window when you want to check values.

 

[caracol]

@caracol

Actually they haven't been touched.

As for what would make this at least slightly more modable I answered that partialy in the other thread where you asked it, though you can forget about 1.x ever having a slider, I doubt they'll invest the time needed for that sort of option, and I don't blame them.

Yeah, turns out I was just using less roads than usual.. Haha but thank for all the answers. Looks like there is a lot of work for this and maybe we will see it just in CSL2 (if ever..)

 

[til_bardaga]

I had a strange bug with the limits, at some point in my 70k city i was not able to add anymore building (roads, public services) but could still zone. I downloaded the "show limits" mod and it turns out i was at 8500 roads/ 32000. I had just downloaded a park asset before that so it seems strange it could break my save. I just started a new city and hope it won't happen again, but if someone has any idea of what's going on...

 

[MarkJohnson]

I had a strange bug with the limits, at some point in my 70k city i was not able to add anymore building (roads, public services) but could still zone. I downloaded the "show limits" mod and it turns out i was at 8500 roads/ 32000. I had just downloaded a park asset before that so it seems strange it could break my save. I just started a new city and hope it won't happen again, but if someone has any idea of what's going on...

I downloaded this mod "Show Limits" and it shows that buildings are indeed including zonable buildings. so all of my tiny buildings are adding up fast. I have over 31k at the moment. same with all of my old saves that were hitting the object limits. I guess we need all 4x4 high density buildings to reach maximum pop/city size. I guess it's time for slow and careful meticulous zoning so we only get 4x4 buildings. Looks like I have a lot of rezoning and reorganizing my roads. back to boring checkerboard cities. lol at least for zoning sections.

Also, I noticed when I was deleting bus lines that my road limits were lowering by the amount of bus stops it had. So removing bus lines stops and probably all mass-transit lines stops will allow more roads to be built.

 

[ParadoxianFK]

I started getting the same problem suddenly and its not just roads that is affected.

My city has less than 25,000 population.
I have 25 tiles unlocked but have played 460 hours with no problem until now.

I first noticed this ''Cannot create any more objects of this type" message showing when I try to create new roads of any type or train lines.

I tried reading a lot of forum posts with no joy.
I saw someone write something about limits and then someone mentioned the Show Limits mod.
I found the Show Limits mod and subscribed to that.
The Show Limits mod shows that I am no where near reaching the limits of the game so I'm now unsure as to why I'm no longer able to add any roads or rail to my city.

The Show Limits mod shows the following info:
Roads: 4617/32256
Road Intersections: 4617/32256
Buildings: 2409/32256
Trees: 97071/262139
Zone Blocks: 4881/32256

So basically I have built less than 15% of the roads limit and low on everything else, so I don't understand why I'm no longer able to ''create any more objects'' when it comes to road and rail.

I checked out every object in the game.
The following is a list of the objects I can no longer create:
- Roads
- Road Intersections
- Rail
- Metro
- Ship
- Plane
- Water
- Also the roads update tool no longer allows any existing road to be updated.

The rest so far I'm still able to create.

This is a bug so far as I can tell and it's rendered my map unplayable.

UPDATE:
My belief is something has corrupted this one particular map.

If I start up a new map everything is ok again.

Also if I copy an older version of the same map that I had made a backup of a few days ago into the saved games folder and loaded that in the game, again everything is ok again, the problem goes away (although of course now I've lost everything I did in the last few days).

So my guess is something corrupted the map at some point. I doubt it was an asset I subscribed to as I tried deleting the latest assets I added without it making any difference. I have had several instances where the game has crashed suddenly or crashed when I tried to save my progress. I can't remember if this happened directly before the problem occurred, but this seems to be the most likely scenario.

 

[thingshappen]

My belief is something has corrupted this one particular map.

If I start up a new map everything is ok again.

Also if I copy an older version of the same map that I had made a backup of a few days ago into the saved games folder and loaded that in the game, again everything is ok again, the problem goes away (although of course now I've lost everything I did in the last few days).

So my guess is something corrupted the map at some point. I doubt it was an asset I subscribed to as I tried deleting the latest assets I added without it making any difference. I have had several instances where the game has crashed suddenly or crashed when I tried to save my progress. I can't remember if this happened directly before the problem occurred, but this seems to be the most likely scenario.

I've got the same problem on 9 tiles. Whenever my game crashes during a save it corrupts that save and a number of saves behind it for some reason, even though before saving I've checked whether I can still build roads. I have to pretty much go back a day to be able to build roads again, but if it crashes at some point I lose that progress too, so I've been pretty much stuck doing the same thing every day for the past week and it's just killed the fun in the game.

I'm thinking it's probably a mod that's getting saved to the save file, which is screwing up and corrupting the road count, or the limiter in the game. The only one I know of that modifies roads, and gets saved to the games save file is Traffic++, so if you have that it's maybe a good starting point. It could be potentially corrupting the saves before one that crashes the game, but we don't notice because we don't restart the game after every save.

If it's any help, I've made it to just under 50% of the road limit, but it's still telling me I can't build any more roads. I'd rather not lose my city that I've spent 3 weeks on, so if you figure something out about this please let me know so I can maybe carry on. It seems a bit of an odd bug, and why it corrupts my saves I don't know.

 

[hondaman]

I have just hit this limit.

200 hours played. I have played only one map, the map I started when I bought skylines. 419k population. I do not wish to start all over, I was enjoying my map, my city. Why start over in the first place if I am just going to hit this limit again?