Cancel personal union diplo costs excessive?

[TheDarkMaster]

I noticed that the diplomatic point costs to cancel subjects are also now based on development levels. However, when it comes to PUs the costs seem to quickly scale up to rather ridiculous levels. Here, ending Poland's PU over lithuania would actually cost max diplo points.

Isn't this a bit high? Lithuania isn't even one of the biggest PU partners that you see in the game. I don't think there is any way to reduce the cost either, except by supporting the independence of the junior member (impossible unless they're rebellious) and maybe through a coalition war.

It doesn't feel right that if a big threat has a personal union you want to break that you need to actually save up maximum diplo points to do it. Maybe the costs should be scaled back a bit or a CB for breaking enemies/rivals up could be added to the game that you might get from missions or something like that.

 

[Orkonkel]

It's also no longer possible to demolish the senior partner's prestige in a war since prestige loss is much more limited. In a recent Ottoman game, I occupied all of Poland and killed their armies (stack-wipes) and they were still at positive prestige.

 

[Tweakee]

Wouldn't Rivalry and Unjustified Demands reductions apply?

Alternatively, if you keep taking Poland's land, even loyal Lithy will turn on them eventually.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Wouldn't Rivalry and Unjustified Demands reductions apply?

Alternatively, if you keep taking Poland's land, even loyal Lithy will turn on them eventually.

A rivalry brings the costs down to ~850, which is still quite high. Unjustified demands requires specific ideas and picking out ideas just to reduce the costs of ending a PU doesn't sound like an ideal solution. Especially since the country is probably going to be integrated by the time I have those ideas unlocked.

 

[Zelius]

They changed unjustified demands: release vassals (from within the nation itself) used to be 50 dip per province, now 3 dip per development. At the same time changed cancel subjects from 50 per country to 3 dip per development. Intentional? I don't know at this point.

It's also no longer possible to demolish the senior partner's prestige in a war since prestige loss is much more limited. In a recent Ottoman game, I occupied all of Poland and killed their armies (stack-wipes) and they were still at positive prestige.

You now lose quite a bit of prestige for having your capital occupied, so there's that. And of course you can take prestige in peace deals, or if rebels enforce demands.

 

[ringhloth]

Dip costs for peace deals are bugged in general.

 

[Subbak]

It's also no longer possible to demolish the senior partner's prestige in a war since prestige loss is much more limited. In a recent Ottoman game, I occupied all of Poland and killed their armies (stack-wipes) and they were still at positive prestige.

If you can be Papal controller (and get the Papal States to hate Poland/Castille, which is much easier if you're the Papal States yourself), Excommunication should help a lot to reduce prestige. -2/year is no joke, provided their rulers lives a bit. The -50 (-100 ?) relation hit with Catholic Lithuania can't hurt either.
Of course, Ottomans can't do that, and even Catholic countries could have hard time getting the Pope to hate their rivals AND be the Curia controller at the same time.

 

[Wizzington]

Yeah, this is a bit nuts. We'll cap individual peace demands at 300 diplo.

 

[zerosius]

Yeah, this is a bit nuts. We'll cap individual peace demands at 300 diplo.

Thank God! Really looking forward to the next patch

 

[iShurik]

Do the -50% unjustified demands from influence Ideas and -33% from rivals work properly in 1.13?

 

[migalhone]

Do the -50% unjustified demands from influence Ideas and -33% from rivals work properly in 1.13?

Judging from ringhloth's screenshot, it does not work properly.

 

[CzokletMuss]

Yeah, this is a bit nuts. We'll cap individual peace demands at 300 diplo.

Praise the Random Number God!

 

[Falc]

Judging from ringhloth's screenshot, it does not work properly.

But the question was about the upcoming 1.13, while the screenshot is quite likely the current 1.12

 

[Shaaaq]

It's also no longer possible to demolish the senior partner's prestige in a war since prestige loss is much more limited. In a recent Ottoman game, I occupied all of Poland and killed their armies (stack-wipes) and they were still at positive prestige.

If you smash them and peace out with annul treaties more times than not they will get attacked by other nations and enter that downward spiral.
After your war and perhaps another 2 from minors, they will be in negative prestige and sometimes even negative stability (not that it's relevant to personal unions).

I'm personally not too much of a fan of personal unions breaking on negative prestige as it tends to be very strange; AI burgundy could be expanding but end up getting two or more bad events or maybe a single bad war and they could then lose all of their personal unions.
I'm no historian though, what is the case historically?

 

[migalhone]

But the question was about the upcoming 1.13, while the screenshot is quite likely the current 1.12

Sorry, i missed that part.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Yeah, this is a bit nuts. We'll cap individual peace demands at 300 diplo.

Well then I'm glad I brought it up.