Can you play this without Common Sense?

[Xam Enyap]

I haven't played this game since last winter and snooping around Steam to check what I missed it seems that some people are mightily unhappy with Common Sense expansion. Its all well and good and not really my problem, but some of the user reviews mentions that ability to develop your provinces (like building buildings ?) are patched out and not available without buying this expansion and that AI is using new features in your game while you are not allowed to do so. I won't be able to play until weekend so not like I can check, but is it true that you are pretty much screwed if you don't by this? If so what is the last version non Common Sense owner can play?

 

[Chieron]

Without Common Sense, you'll not be able to develop your provinces, that means increasing base tax/production(trade)/manpower.
As buildings now require slots, and those slots are dependent on development levels, you'll not be able to build as many of them.
However, especially if you are of the blobbing persuasion, you do not really need the feature and additional slots.
You can play without Common Sense. Last version before CS would be 1.11, methinks

 

[hwoosh]

The best patch version of EU4 is still 1.11.4, IMO. I played with Common Sense for a few hours and then ran in disappointment straight back to 1.11—partly because I've been on a New World kick and those nations have been made downright unpleasant to play in 1.12/13. If you're playing elsewhere in the world, 1.13 might be a more all right experience.

 

[Xam Enyap]

I see. Would you say that CS is now worth it? Has the AI issues and balance people were complaining about after launch been fixed by now?

 

[neondt]

Increasing development is only something you want to do when you're capped on monarch points. And besides there are already ways to spend MP when you're capped; convert cultures with DIP, roll generals with MIL, and... well who ever gets ADM capped? It doesn't impact the game anywhere near as much as say, National Focus which was in the AoW DLC.

 

[Outrider]

I see. Would you say that CS is now worth it? Has the AI issues and balance people were complaining about after launch been fixed by now?

I'd say there's a way to go improving the AI to be smart about maneuvering in the new fort-system. The biggest on-launch issue in that regard (suicidal AI) appears to be ironed out.

 

[Xam Enyap]

Increasing development is only something you want to do when you're capped on monarch points. And besides there are already ways to spend MP when you're capped; convert cultures with DIP, roll generals with MIL, and... well who ever gets ADM capped? It doesn't impact the game anywhere near as much as say, National Focus which was in the AoW DLC.

How much can you build without this new development system? I'm not much into painting the map I'm mostly just trying to play historically and stick to sensible borders so usually my provinces had lots of buildings.

 

[Chieron]

Increasing development is only something you want to do when you're capped on monarch points. And besides there are already ways to spend MP when you're capped; convert cultures with DIP, roll generals with MIL, and... well who ever gets ADM capped? It doesn't impact the game anywhere near as much as say, National Focus which was in the AoW DLC.

Capping ADM depends on playstyle. It's not an issue for expansionists, but if you want to stay smaller, you'll get there eventually. But yes, development is a point sink that may be of little use depending on playstyle.

 

[Chieron]

How much can you build without this new development system? I'm not much into painting the map I'm mostly just trying to play historically and stick to sensible borders so usually my provinces had lots of buildings.

Mostly 1-3 (more expensive and stronger) buildings per province (+1 or +2 in Grassland or Farmlands)
You get 1 building slot per 10 development, with 20 development being a good value (akin to 7 basetax, gets 3 slots).

 

[grommile]

I... have yet to see a compelling reason to buy CS.

I would probably have a different opinion if I gave two-tenths of a bucket of warm spit about EU4's colonial game.

 

[Path]

I like the improvements to theocracies, and I really like the subject interations, but development is still terrible. I'm not sure it can be salvaged in any way as the game isn't really set up to work well with it--one way or another it's going to stay a roleplaying thing or become terribly overpowered.

Note that most of the complaints about CS have nothing to do with CS, e.g., the new forts mechanic.

 

[illathid]

I... have yet to see a compelling reason to buy CS.

I would probably have a different opinion if I gave two-tenths of a bucket of warm spit about EU4's colonial game.

If you like playing in the HRE, Free Cities are nice too.

 

[neondt]

How much can you build without this new development system? I'm not much into painting the map I'm mostly just trying to play historically and stick to sensible borders so usually my provinces had lots of buildings.

In addition to what Chieron said:

It's only worth increasing development for the sake of getting more building slots when the total development of a province is close to a multiple of 10. E.g. if you have a province with 8 total development, increasing that by 2 gives you an extra build slot, and that can sometimes be a worthwhile use of your resources. But you wouldn't do that for a province with 11 development - the hundreds of MP it would cost to get it to 20 would be much better spent on pretty much anything else.

 

[IceTytanFang]

Short answer: Yes
Long answer: It depends on how fast you can adapt and your play style

 

[NetherViking]

Yeah you can still play and build buildings. I don't have CS myself (probably will get it eventually though. A province may have 1 to 5 building slots and they stay that way. Development will still go up with events.

 

[GChapman]

The answer is a big YES.

If i wanna play without CS, i might miss the subject interaction, but you can certainly play without subject interaction.
CS is really about flavor. Theocracies with more features, the English parlement, ...

I bought CS not at the release. I was thinking no having development is a real issue for no CS games, but i turned out even development is just a flavor. If i use development i try to unlock new building slots (dont use the slot mostly), and in 1 campaign, i wont unlock more than 8 slots. If you have around 500 provinces (at least), 8 slots dont make any difference. So i do think even development is a flavor feature.

 

[pikaemperor]

and... well who ever gets ADM capped?

Western tech problems...

 

[neondt]

Western tech problems...

I bet you'll be spending most of that ADM when those wars are over though

 

[whosthebestcop]

I've played with and with out CS. Development really means very little except in certain situations.

Again max MP. Mostly military and it gets you those extra building slots and tons more manpower.

But I've seen people use it on sat Ireland to make those lands valuable because well they suck all around.

Things I really enjoyed in CS
Theocracies
Protestant church power
Subject interactions
Government ranks
HRE stuff

Is it 100% needed dlc probably not. But I have enjoyed my CS games more.

 

[GChapman]

Blob even more!