Can you make a heratic pope?

[User4035]

I am just wondering if/when your chaplain converts to say Catharism and you follow suit. Then send your chaplain to convert in your province/kingdom. Can you eventually make a Cathar pope? And then possibly spread this religion onwards?

 

[grisamentum]

You can't set up a heretic pope, no. You could convert the regular pope but he'd still be the "catholic" pope even if he weren't catholic.

You can spread catharism normally (with your chaplain and vassals) but it's difficult.

 

[Battle bunny]

Yeah, unfortunately, most heresies don't have a head of religion, making it less impressive to play with them than it could potentially be. I believe there are mods to develop heresies. I've never tried any, personally.

 

[Lorehead]

I believe the Monophysites are labeled a “heresy,” in game terms, but have a religious head, and that, if you appoint a Monophysite bishop of Alexandria, he will hand the keys over to that religious head, making him Pope of Alexandria.

Of course, once it becomes an official state religion, it’s arguably not a heresy any more.

 

[jordarkelf]

Yup, but the only heresies with religious heads are Monophysite (Miaphysite heresy), and Monothelite and Nestorian (both Orthodox heresies).

None of the other heresies have a head of religion, nor do the pagan and zoroastrian ones.

 

[Lorehead]

Yup, but the only heresies with religious heads are Monophysite (Miaphysite heresy), and Monothelite and Nestorian (both Orthodox heresies).

To be pedantic, Miaphysites are not considered heretics in the game (and indeed, they were a state religion). You’re correct that Monothelites (which is how the game refers to Maronites) and Nestorians (how it refers to the Church of the East) have religious heads. However, they claim to be Patriarch of Antioch (accurate for the Maronites, but not for the Church of the East), whereas only the bishops of Rome and Alexandria call themselves Popes.

 

[jordarkelf]

I know, I didn't state Miaphysite is an Orthodox heresy. That is no longer the case since LoR. Just wanted to make sure we all knew what heresies had religious heads, since most of them don't.
And the "Nestorians" are given a claim on Antioch, since there can only be five patriarchs so there is no room for one in Babylon/Baghdad/whathaveyounot.

 

[Kimberly]

To be pedantic, Miaphysites are not considered heretics in the game (and indeed, they were a state religion). You’re correct that Monothelites (which is how the game refers to Maronites) and Nestorians (how it refers to the Church of the East) have religious heads. However, they claim to be Patriarch of Antioch (accurate for the Maronites, but not for the Church of the East), whereas only the bishops of Rome and Alexandria call themselves Popes.

The Coptic Pope doesn't claim the Roman Pope's title anyway, does he? I'm pretty sure some council or other recognized the Coptic Pope and his title.

 

[jordarkelf]

Actually the 'Coptic Pope' has been using the title Pope longer than Rome, since 232AD, but that was before they split off at the Council of Chalcedon (451) so technically it was just the Archbishop of Alexandria using the title
They became Patriarchs of Alexandria thanks to the Council of Ephesus (431), and since 451 there has been both a Patriarch of Alexandria and the Coptic Orthodox Patriarch/Pope of Alexandria.

'Pope' is basically the same term as 'Patriarch', both come from 'Father', a generic form of address for christian priests.

 

[Thure]

And the "Nestorians" are given a claim on Antioch, since there can only be five patriarchs so there is no room for one in Babylon/Baghdad/whathaveyounot.

This is the problem... All religions use the same 5 patriarchs... I would like it, if it is possible to make patriarchs for other religions in other provinces too.

 

[Lorehead]

I know, I didn't state Miaphysite is an Orthodox heresy. That is no longer the case since LoR.

You didn’t; sorry!

And the "Nestorians" are given a claim on Antioch, since there can only be five patriarchs so there is no room for one in Babylon/Baghdad/whathaveyounot.

It’s a very minor issue, and extremely unlikely to ever come up unless you’re playing as Sartaq, but there’s really no reason to fit them into the Pentarchy to begin with. To the best of my knowledge, they didn’t care, and Pope Nicholas IV even said they weren’t heretical. Although the first meeting between Rabban bar Sauma and the cardinals did go wrong when he told them the Khan wanted to make an alliance that gave them Jerusalem, and they began interrogating him on what was really important: whether he believed that the Holy Spirit proceedeth from the Father alone, or from the Father and the Son.

He got out of it several hours later by telling them that he’d been hoping to see the sights while he was in Rome, so could he please have their permission to visit St. Peter’s Basilica that he’d heard so much about? Now?