Can we talk about the Soviet Union nerfs?

[GAGA Extrem]

How do you get the consumer goods factories bonus in Gosproyektstroy?

Foreign Experts focus in the Industry branch. You can first invite some experts from one country via decision (e.g. US for +10% prod efficiency cap), then you get a second one that can be used to customize the designer with the -5% CG modifier.

Actually not a terrible path to take, given that you can go for the research slot afterwards. Also outside of the main 5-year-plan part, so you don't have to fully commit to that if you dislike the +5% CG modifier from there.

 

[Leinad965]

Why to get research slots early? You can skip fuel, resource, cas and naval researches, which are needed for Germany and not needed for you until later

 

[Putuna]

I think it's a bit early to be declaring the Soviet Union ruined and too weak a lot of this is down to a new tree and some changes to combat. This is going to cause a change in the meta which is what people are trying to figure out. Things like no air Russia look to be something of the past. Also how big of a nerf did the Sovietsl industry really take as @Secret Master pointed out they can get some good production buffs.

Soviets certainly had some stuff going for it with the dozer attachments for tanks that give defenders ridiculous stats that make tank divs unbreakable with 4000 plus defense.

 

[ChromeViper]

i had 175 civs by the time of barbarossa lmao

 

[ComradeKroo]

i had 175 civs by the time of barbarossa lmao

Amateur Sov player get ~300 factories that time (150 CIV 150 MIL).
With Pros, they could get 350+.

In NSB, if you dont know how to counter 10% consumer goods from five years plans, with -5 % from gosproyektroys industrial concern and temporary -5% from agitrop, your economy mostly just reach 250 factories in 1941, which means you will lose.

 

[Nuklearius]

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[Nuklearius]

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[GAGA Extrem]

Wait where does gosproysomething get that bonus from?

Foreign Experts focus enables two tiers of decisions.
First one picks a foreign country (I tend to go for US for +10% prod eff cap).
Second allows you to select a focus (which adds the -5% CG demand).

After playing a bit more I actually think that the Soviets can scale their economy a lot more past 41 - you just need to figure out a way to delay the German push long enough.

I guess next time I will try to focus on air power and railway artillery to see if that works. Right now I only produce about 7-8k fighters until mid '41, I assume shifting some IC should allow the Soviets to go for around 10-12k, and together with some AA brigades & divisions that might be enough to stop the Axis' bombers.

 

[Nuklearius]

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[long_fella]

Good stuff

It's my first HOI4 game for a long time, and my first NSB game, so I've obviously got a lot to learn. But just to provide some contrast to your (good, helpful) post I'm at Feb '40 in my game. I'm in the middle of the Winter War (started late), and have consumed Latvia and Lithuania, but not Estonia.

I have 92 CIVs (including 13 from trade) and 46 MIL. I probably built too much infrastructure, and too many railroads (because supply...) but still...

I'm still using the starting infantry template because I don't have enough xp and / or equipment to update it.

Oh, and I only have 144 of those infantry divisions on my western front.

I am going to get completely, utterly, royally screwed .

But... and I guess this is my point, if there's only really one "optimal" route through the focus tree it doesn't really allow room for actual player decisions, or indeed much in the way of player agency.


inb4 "git gud" .

 

[GAGA Extrem]

[...]
Still a weird design decision by Paradox to make the actual industrial focus tree so terrible. Are we sure they didn't just make a typo there and it's actually supposed to be -5% not +5% consumer goods? Because at the moment it's just a noob-trap.
[...]

Given that the next focus [Reorganize the PC] mitigates 3% of the penalty it seems quite WAD.
If you go down the lefthand side of the 3rd 5Y plan you end up with +2% CG demand for +5% output, +5% prod cap and +10% retention. Which shouldn't be all that terrible, considering that output also affects construction speed. Plus you get a 2y ahead penalty reduction, so you can grab one of the industry techs earlier as well.

Thing is you need a total of 150 IC for it, so you can't just rush it outright.

I assume the CG demand increase is there to simulate the use of civilian factories for the modernization, not the actual production of CG goods.

[...]
I probably built too much infrastructure, and too many railroads (because supply...) but still...
[...]
inb4 "git gud" .

You shouldn't have any need for supply related constructions until 1940.

...and this really is a case of 'you need to get gud' as in: 'you need to learn the intricacies of the new tree and figure out what is powerful'.
My first game as SOV was also really, really bad. But optimizing their buildup is actually a lot of fun - and I think you have plenty of options to do that.

 

[long_fella]

You shouldn't have any need for supply related constructions until 1940.

...and this really is a case of 'you need to get gud' as in: 'you need to learn the intricacies of the new tree and figure out what is powerful'.
My first game as SOV was also really, really bad. But optimizing their buildup is actually a lot of fun - and I think you have plenty of options to do that.

No argument from me. Essentially my first game seems to have been designed to demonstrate what you shouldn't do .

 

[ComradeKroo]

Consider USSR get nerfed in Industrial capacity (most of complains are about consumer goods > construction of factories), in NSB, they still get some buffed from focuses.
-Major buff to Comrade Stalin .
-Minor buff to PP mana, with Stalin and Khrushev (countered by -15% of Trostky)
-Major buff to Intelligent Agency, with +1 Spy, faster to get 4 spies to steal techs, maybe the game changer.
-Major buff to research rate. Research Institutes open a door to use the extra PP to increase research rate, its huge and it maybe OP.

 

[Nuklearius]

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[Nuklearius]

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[Dambo84]

It is for a human Germany. Just look at the threads about people complaining about it. One incorrectly even said he can't supply 24 divisions attacking Poland.

I’ve managed to steamroll Poland and Soviet Russia as the Germans with no problems. I can only assume they haven’t used trucks to resupply their frontlines, and/or upgraded train lines and infrastructure.

I also made sure to upgrade my trains ASAP.

 

[toegut]

Against AI it's not that difficult to hold the line. I'm in my first game and sitting at 23% consumer goods (ridiculous, shouldn't have taken that FYP) but I still have produced about 5k fighters to beat Germany in the air as well as 2k CAS and TACs to bomb them. I'm holding the Molotov line without even any forts and the Germans took one tile from me so far in Ukraine. I think the Soviets are fine in SP unless you're doing cheesy strats like 40w heavy tanks or "no-air", cheesy stuff got nerfed.

 

[jju_57]

I’ve managed to steamroll Poland and Soviet Russia as the Germans with no problems. I can only assume they haven’t used trucks to resupply their frontlines, and/or upgraded train lines and infrastructure.

I also made sure to upgrade my trains ASAP.

Gee talk about moving goal posts. I wrote that in response to a MP game and you reply with a SP game and playing the AI.

Of course any competant player can EASILY win against the AI playing as Germany or the SOV.

Look at the post just below your post and see someone saying how easy they are winning as Soviets.

 

[AnssiA]

Given that the next focus [Reorganize the PC] mitigates 3% of the penalty it seems quite WAD.
If you go down the lefthand side of the 3rd 5Y plan you end up with +2% CG demand for +5% output, +5% prod cap and +10% retention. Which shouldn't be all that terrible, considering that output also affects construction speed. Plus you get a 2y ahead penalty reduction, so you can grab one of the industry techs earlier as well.

No, it doesn't.

 

[Pale Blue]

In my opinion 5 year plan trades something you need for something you don't need. I want as many civs as possible to kick-start my industry, but I can't do that if I increase my CG. In return five year plan gives factory output and efficiency I don't want early game, because all I can build is bad early game equipment.

It should be the reverse a Malus for factory output but reduced CG. Later when I have researched Tech and built the backbone for an economy is when I actually care about factory output, to produce more useful equipment.