Can we talk about the awkward single-culture groups?

[Clownie]

What about renaming Syrian to Levantine Arabic (Syria), Mashriq to Mesopotamian Arabic (Iraq), and as you mention divide up Bedouin into Bedouin (Najd/Shammar), Hejazi (Hejaz), Gulf Arabic (Sharjah/Haasa), Omani (Oman), and Yemeni (Yemen). This way all of these tags would have their own primary culture and allow them to appear in the right area.

We'd be regressing. The Arabian cultures used to have names like al-Mashriq Arabic, al-Misr Arabic, al-Siriyyah(sp?) Arabic, etc. I prefer it this way, to be honest; it's a bit jarring to use exonyms for most cultures and then use endonyms for Arabs. If we're gonna use endonyms for cultures that have exonyms, that rule should be applied universally, naming Irish 'Éireannagh', Swedish 'Svenska', Hungarian 'Magyar', and Castilian 'Castellano'.

 

[Grand Historian]

What about renaming Syrian to Levantine Arabic (Syria), Mashriq to Mesopotamian Arabic (Iraq), and as you mention divide up Bedouin into Bedouin (Najd/Shammar), Hejazi (Hejaz), Gulf Arabic (Sharjah/Haasa), Omani (Oman), and Yemeni (Yemen). This way all of these tags would have their own primary culture and allow them to appear in the right area.

I'm not certain about the necessity of the renames, since it won't really change any underlying mechanics, but Gulf Arabic is a possibility.

 

[Grand Historian]

Koreans were at the start of EU4 still chinese. Modern times? No. They are distinct. However, any Korean historian knows that the start of Korean culture was with Sejong. Sejong exists at the start of the game, however the Korean identity only existed at the EARLIEST at the time of the creation of Hangul. At the EARLIEST, even then you can argue it wasn't distinct for another 300 years. Nothing was different between Koreans and Chinese at that point. The north and south chinese were most distinct than Koreans were from the North Chinese. It makes no sense they aren't placed under the Chinese culture group. They used to be, then Paradox changed/nerfed them for some unknown reason.

It was changed in 1.8 when the East Asian group, which included the once homogenous Chinese, Korean and Japanese groups were split up so Chinese could become it's own culture group while the other two were left to be their own. My guess is they didn't want to crowd the Chinese culture group, or overlooked it by accident when they were carving up China.

 

[Heinrikr]

Also if someone would tell me how to edit my post to make my image be hidden under a button I'd appreciate it.

(spoiler)Your text(/spoiler)

but instead of " ( " you use " [ ". like this

Spoiler

lalala

 

[Grand Historian]

Now that I think about it; is there anything that can be done to break up Nubian and Somali?

 

[SignedName]

Hungarian I know nothing about. However, Miao are not the same as Chinese. Hmong people don't, and never did, consider themselves culturally the same. Nationality, yes, because they are in the region of China, but the Vietnamese never considered themselves Chinese either. They are not Chinese, simply put.

Japanese and Korean should most definitely not be merged. Japanese are completely distinct from the rest of Asia. Sure, the Japanese spent heaps of time copying the Chinese, but they weren't culturally chinese.

Koreans were at the start of EU4 still chinese. Modern times? No. They are distinct. However, any Korean historian knows that the start of Korean culture was with Sejong. Sejong exists at the start of the game, however the Korean identity only existed at the EARLIEST at the time of the creation of Hangul. At the EARLIEST, even then you can argue it wasn't distinct for another 300 years. Nothing was different between Koreans and Chinese at that point. The north and south chinese were most distinct than Koreans were from the North Chinese. It makes no sense they aren't placed under the Chinese culture group. They used to be, then Paradox changed/nerfed them for some unknown reason.

Uh, except for Korean being a language isolate, closer to both Mongol and Japanese than Chinese. Chinese was used as the written language, but that was the case in Japan as well. Korean sounds nothing like Chinese, and most definitely is not a Chinese dialect. That said, if Manchu is considered to be part of the Chinese culture group, Korean should be as well.

 

[toroltao]

Uh, except for Korean being a language isolate, closer to both Mongol and Japanese than Chinese. Chinese was used as the written language, but that was the case in Japan as well. Korean sounds nothing like Chinese, and most definitely is not a Chinese dialect. That said, if Manchu is considered to be part of the Chinese culture group, Korean should be as well.

Manchu being part of the Chinese culture group is a white flag to the limits of the current culture system more than anything else. The Manchus were most definitely not culturally Chinese, this cannot be disputed, but PI can't make the Manchus their own culture group because otherwise it would be even more impossible conquer China, and probably make it a worthless endeavor as well.

 

[Chaos_TLW]

Manchu being part of the Chinese culture group is a white flag to the limits of the current culture system more than anything else. The Manchus were most definitely not culturally Chinese, this cannot be disputed, but PI can't make the Manchus their own culture group because otherwise it would be even more impossible conquer China, and probably make it a worthless endeavor as well.

It is possible to make a nation Culture Union by effect of a decision, can't that be done for Manchu when it forms Qing? That is actually what happens to Russia when it forms, as Ruthenia is the actual East Slavic cultural union tag(or vice-versa, either way my point still stands).

 

[toroltao]

It is possible to make a nation Culture Union by effect of a decision, can't that be done for Manchu when it forms Qing? That is actually what happens to Russia when it forms, as Ruthenia is the actual East Slavic cultural union tag(or vice-versa, either way my point still stands).

Technically, yes, but realistically there was never a cultural union between Manchu and the rest of the Chinese groups. What happened to the Manchus is closer to cultural extinction rather than a cultural union.

 

[Chaos_TLW]

Technically, yes, but realistically there was never a cultural union between Manchu and the rest of the Chinese groups. What happened to the Manchus is closer to cultural extinction rather than a cultural union.

Eh, true that. I was thinking mostly in gameplay terms there, tbh.

 

[Arrowfiend]

While splitting up cultures is all well and good, it creates a problem gameplay wise if you are not in the same culture group since it makes it much harder, if not impossible, to accept the new, smaller cultures. Something will have to give in regards to culture. I'm leaning towards making the culture system less homogenous and giving the player more control over which cultures they want accepted and which ones they don't. I propose adding a feature where you can forcefully accept a culture at the cost of admin or diplo points and/or revolt risk in your main and accepted culture provinces. The cost of doing so would scale based on how big a percentage the culture is in your nation (admin/diplo cost would decrease at higher percentages while the amount of revolt risk in already accepted provinces would increase at later percentages). Also make a limit on the amount of cultures that a nation can accept, which can increase with humanism, policies, and maybe even later diplo techs.

 

[SignedName]

Technically, yes, but realistically there was never a cultural union between Manchu and the rest of the Chinese groups. What happened to the Manchus is closer to cultural extinction rather than a cultural union.

In a way, it might make sense, upon forming Qing, to get culture-switched to a Chinese culture. Of course, that would create other problems too.

 

[bbqftw]

I think Turkish, Greek, and Serbian should be in the same culture group

 

[Dakilla TM]

I think Turkish, Greek, and Serbian should be in the same culture group

Don't you dare put kebab and serbia together. They will not get along

 

[Grand Historian]

Don't you dare put kebab and serbia together. They will not get along

Let's rub it in even further by throwing in Armenian.

 

[toroltao]

Let's rub it in even further by throwing in Armenian.

You mean Hungary right? Hungarian and Turkish culture are practically identical.

 

[BlackBarook]

Also, I feel that Arabic as a Culture Group should be revised; Egyptian, Syrian and Mashriqi should be reallocated to a Levantine Culture Group, while Bedouin should be cut up into Bedouin, Hedjazi, Omani and Yemeni and constitute the Arabic group.

With all due respect: this makes little sense.

Levantine is not a term used by Arabs to describe themselves but is used to describe the Latin Christians that settled in Greater Syria and assimilated somewhat into the surrounding cultures. Bedouin shouldn't even be a culture if culture = language and the existing Arab culture group shouldn't be broken down further. It's bad enough that Meghrabi isn't part of the Arab group, but to split Mashriqi, Syrian and Egyptian from Bedouin? Madness!

 

[zeredek]

For people saying Magyars aren't Slavs, remember that Paradox has fully decided to move Bretons to the French culture group
Culture groups are entirely for gameplay and not historical accuracy now

 

[SignedName]

For people saying Magyars aren't Slavs, remember that Paradox has fully decided to move Bretons to the French culture group
Culture groups are entirely for gameplay and not historical accuracy now

The Breton aristocracy all spoke French, and it is situated in the French region, so it gets the French culture- a similar argument can be made for Basques and the Spanish culture group. There was no historical South Slavic empire that encompassed Hungary and considered it core territory, however. In fact, it seems that if anything, the opposite happened.

 

[Pro]

Culture means culture, neither ethnicity or language. Hungarian should almost certainly be in the same culture group as their slavic neighbors.