Can we talk about the awkward single-culture groups?

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Granite

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Seriously, some of these are just bizarre, and they can actually have strange impacts on gameplay.
Magyar: Now, I understand that Hungary is in a weird position, but the cultural limitations on Hungary are just sad. Hungarian represents a large amount of basetax, thus Hungary must conquer a large amount of land from any of its neighbors before getting accepted.
Solution: I understand that the Magyar group was implemented because people complained about Hungarian being considered Slavic, but as a gameplay shortcut, I feel reimplementation into the South Slavic group would work wonders.
Miao: What even is this? This wonderful culture group Is contained within Ming, but is not in the Chinese group, in fact, it is in its own small group.
Solution: ...Just put it in the Chinese group.
Byzantine: This one is made up of two cultures(If one province of Gothic even counts).
Solution: None, I don't think it's actually a huge issue, just a pet peeve. I guess some more Greek could be added in Asia Minor and the Pontian region.
Japanese and Korean: Both of these cultures are unique snowflakes. They are each in their own groups, Korean is the only nation with Korean culture. Japanese Diamyos and Ryukyu fall into Japanese culture.
Solution: Merge Korean and Japanese into a single group. Move Ainu out of Siberian and into the new group. It might facilitate Japan trying to invade Korea, rather than Manchuria as they tend to do now.
Tibet: Difficult to place, but Tibet is in it's own little world.
Solution: I actually like this. It disincentivizes Indian Nations from pushing into China, or China from pushing into India.
 
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wergy

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I was already suggesting to make Hungarian a West Slavic culture. In tradition and folklore there is barely any difference between Czech, Hungarian, Polish, Slovakian, Serbian, Romanian, or Croatian.
Concerning to Miao, I think it is a bug which wil be fixed.
 
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Tub

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The main one I take issue with is Japanese/Korean being integrated under your system. Why? Gameplay purposes? Both are far too unique to be lumped together, and it seems to be a completely arbitrary piece of logic on your part. Why should they be similar, because they're close together? That's asinine reasoning.

If anything, there are cultures in certain groups that ought not be in those groups. For example, one could make the argument that Scottish culture is closer to Irish or Welsh culture than English, yet it's in the British group.

It would be great if Portuguese was made its own group, separate from Castilian/Spanish, and the development of creole languages/cultures was simulated from European languages/cultures. Afrikaans in South Africa, Filipino in the Philippines, Australian in Australia, American in America. You could even have them unique to the culture they develop from - Philippinian if the Philippines is colonized by the British, Americano if North America is colonized by the Spanish, Afriquais if South Africa is colonized by the French.

tldr; there are ways cultures can be improved, but it's not by simplifying culture in-game even further than it already is.
 
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Apolojuice

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Koreans and Japanese people don't get along precisely because they see themselves as special snowflakes.

I could see them being in the same cultural group though. They really aren't that dissimilar, especially when compared to other groups. If you are going by language, it's easy to learn each other's compared to any other from the outside, even though they are technically not the same language group (the grammar is identical, you can change individual words, keep the order of the words, and the sentence will make sense).


Even from gameplay perspective, it will promote united Japan to actively conquer Korea in the late 1500's, so I support it.


From a guy who might or might not come from either culture and might or might not speak both languages.
 
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Chaos_TLW

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The Miao-yao people are not culturally Chinese, they are some of the original inhabitants of China, before being displaced by Han expansion southwards.
 
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Thravid

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I was already suggesting to make Hungarian a West Slavic culture. In tradition and folklore there is barely any difference between Czech, Hungarian, Polish, Slovakian, Serbian, Romanian, or Croatian.
Concerning to Miao, I think it is a bug which wil be fixed.
You forgot Bulgarian :(
 

Homusubi

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Japanese and Korean: Both of these cultures are unique snowflakes. They are each in their own groups, Korean is the only nation with Korean culture. Japanese Diamyos and Ryukyu fall into Japanese culture.

I think I just heard Ishihara Shintaro projectile vomit.

Just because a culture doesn't have any others that are similar doesn't mean they have to be forced to be made similar ingame. Magyars aren't Slavs, Japanese aren't Koreans and vice versa, Hmong people (Miao is derogatory) aren't Han Chinese, and Tibet isn't "China" (that's a modern thing).
 
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Granite

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I think I just heard Ishihara Shintaro projectile vomit.

Just because a culture doesn't have any others that are similar doesn't mean they have to be forced to be made similar ingame. Magyars aren't Slavs, Japanese aren't Koreans and vice versa, Hmong people (Miao is derogatory) aren't Han Chinese, and Tibet isn't "China" (that's a modern thing).
But here is the thing: They are culture groups, not singular cultures. Just as Korean is not the same thing as Japanese, Castilian is not the same as Portuguese. Yet, the Iberians are grouped together. Cultural groups are a gameplay crutch, relying on basic geographic proximity, rather than a commentary on cultural homogeneity.
 
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spyroware1

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The Miao-yao people are not culturally Chinese, they are some of the original inhabitants of China, before being displaced by Han expansion southwards.

Yeah Manchu were most definetely not culturally Chinese but they're in the same group for gameplay purposes.


And about Tibet, do you guys play games where Bengal isnt conquering it? (then losing it, then reconquering it).


All the Balkans should be lumped together into a Byzantine-Balkan group that should also include Hungary. I'm very annoyed that Ottomans can accept Hungarian provinces better than say Wallachia, or Serbian provinces better than Byzantium and Hungary. Especially Byzantium, Greek is the culture with like the richest BT in the game, you never get to accept anything :(
 
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We could use the Corsican, Maltese, Valencian, and Mallorquin cultures too.

I don't really see the point of those, they occupy such a small area as a majority that the AI will quickly oust Malteser, transfer Casu marzu, dismiss Paella and expel Ensaïmada. Besides as the Dev's have said they're moving away from Culture = Language.
 

Grand Historian

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Magyar should be replaced with a Carpathian culture group, which Hungarian, a new Transylvanian culture and Romanian should all be a part of (since all are closer to each other culturally and historically than the Balkans).

Byzantine will be getting Pontic in 1.12, as Wiz said, and I imagine Trebizond is it's primary nation. Hopefully this will resolve the issue of Naxos/Corfu defecting to Trebizond.

Korean should be moved into the Chinese group since, culturally, they are incredibly similar and Korea has almost always been under China's influence; culturally, politically, religiously and economically.

Japanese as a culture should be cut up and turned into a culture group: Yamato for Chugoku, Shikoku, Kansai and the western parts of Tokaido and Horikoku, Kyushu for the namesake island, Kanto for the namesake region and eastern Tokaido, Tohoku for the namesake region and eastern Horikoku, and Ryukyuan for Ryukyu. Possibly move Ainu into Japanese, or make an Ezo Culture that appears when a Japanese lord controls an Ainu province.

I cant say anything else about your other points because I lack knowledge on them.

Personally, I think Scottish should also be divided into 'Scots' in the north/highlands, which should be moved to the Celtic group, and Scottish in the south, which should remain in the British group.

Also, I feel that Arabic as a Culture Group should be revised; Egyptian, Syrian and Mashriqi should be reallocated to a Levantine Culture Group, while Bedouin should be cut up into Bedouin, Hedjazi, Omani and Yemeni and constitute the Arabic group.

It appears the Hanoverian will be getting renamed into Westphalian while Hessian will be getting merged with the remains of Rheinlander. Since Germanic culture group seems to be based off of regional divisions and circles, I personally believe that both Westphalian and Hanoverian should remain so both nations have a primary culture, while Hessian and Rheinlander should remain separate for the same reason.
 
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For gameplay there is no use to put Japanese and koreans together and culture wise it won't fit either.

Japanese would better fir with chinese, but not even that. It's like put germans, iberian, celts... and indians together because of the they are indoeuropeans.

edit: Addition: Delete austrian and make it bavarian. There was no austrian identity until 1950s.
 
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