Can we take a moment to appreciate Paradox Interactive?

[Morwys]

A simple question,quote me another big video game company with the notable exception of Valve that make in-house Linux versions of his games simulteanously with Windows.I understand your critics but at least for this reason,i have to disagree.
Cordially.

I do not know about any developer/publisher that makes games simultaneously for Windows and Linux. That's something, I guess.
To be completely honest, I didn't even know that PI did that, since I use Windows exclusively and, frankly, couldn't care less about other plataforms. Also I'm used to wait for console exclusives to launch ports for PC and I cannot understand all the fuss about making games for Linux "simultaneously". It's better to get a good port later than a poor game earlier. But as I said, I don't use Linux, so I don't know how good games are ported to it.
Anyway, after 20+ years of gaming, one of the few things I'm certain of is that devs either die a hero or live long enough to become the villain. PI might still be 'good guy dev' to some people, but it's just a matter of time for them to become sharks like the others.

 

[magriboy0750]

I disagree because Paradox is a Swedish company.It's not EA or Blizzard.This is not the same company culture and the same way of thinking.
Cordially.

 

[Zukhani]

Well Activision and Blizzard are the same company so it is not surprising.

 

[Vilhelm]

Stellaris was the first Paradox game I heard about, and at release it was... okay. However, over the past two years (especially with Utopia/1.5 and Apocalypse/2.0) the game has gotten immensely better thanks to community feedback and hard work from the devs. Since then, Paradox has become my favorite developer/publisher... even if their DLC policy means you have to spend $100-$200 to catch up on EU4 and CK2 like I did. That said, I'll gladly take a few DLCs over grinding my way through lootboxes.

 

[KingRolan]

I don't use Linux and I still think Linux support is great. I only use Windows because of the stranglehold Microsoft has on the software market. I'm always in favor of ports to competing operating systems.

 

[Morwys]

I disagree because Paradox is a Swedish company.It's not EA or Blizzard.This is not the same company culture and the same way of thinking.
Cordially.

I'm sorry, I didn't know that swedish people didn't like money and that swedish companies don't need profit.

 

[Wenla]

I'm sorry, I didn't know that swedish people didn't like money and that swedish companies don't need profit.

(Smelling sarcasmy, but anyhow) yes, of course they like money and need profit, but not as an only target like so many companies in some other country...

 

[stumason]

Also, I don't pre-order games anymore, No Man's Sky taught me that lesson.

I certainly don't as much as I used to, having gone through a phase of pre-ordering everything available and being generally dissapointed with the product.

That said, pre-ordering is much like share dealing - do your research and know what to expect. Some shares are an obvious buy, others you may want to see how it fairs and others you stay well clear of. With PDS, I know what I am getting every time (bugs and all!) and I will readily give them my money the moment they allow me too. I know most bugs will be minor, I know they will patch them out quickly and the new content usually makes up for it anyway. I also really like their community engagement. These days, they are the only studio to get my money ahead of time.

 

[Morwys]

(Smelling sarcasmy, but anyhow) yes, of course they like money and need profit, but not as an only target like so many companies in some other country...

Okay, buddy, sarcasm aside, I honestly see your point. I do. In fact, I used to agree entirely with you not long ago. I was one of the fiercest and meanest PI fanboys out there. I don't want to jerk your chain or anything like that and your opinion really is your own. This world is full of cynics and opinions like yours are good to see. More power for you.
The thing is that what made me stop being a fanboy was realizing how unfair that position is, for everyone involved. We can't realistically expect to be pleased forever by a developer. Everybody makes mistakes and even if not, taste is a subjective thing. Also, I'm not entitled to anything: it's their property, their stuff. They can do whatever with it regardless of my opinions. In the other hand, being a fanboy is an investment, both literal and emotional. When dealing with passionate fans, developers must understand that whatever they do, there's people invested in it, and it has consequences in their lives. That's a huge thing, one that makes developing content for massive IPs really complicated.

With all that said, my comments were in that context, as a response to the OP: as far as the gaming industry goes, I believe we must take a sober and collected posture. Being haters or fanboys is detrimental to the gaming community in general and appreciating PI should be done insofar that means buying their product. So, NO, I can't take a moment to appreciate PI. I won't. I don't need to, because I support them as a customer and that's enough. They're supporting me with their service and that's enough too. They do nice guy stuff, like being open about game content on the forums, but they don't need to, because in the end what matters is the product. If a company treats me like garbage, but delivers good stuff with good prices, then I'm a happy customer. If a company is the nicest in the world, does everything for me, but delivers a bad product, then I don't even bother. I give feedback with my wallet and that should be enough; they deliver their product, and that should be enough.

 

[Ernst]

Indeed, it's been about 20 years I've been enjoying PI games. When I compare the money I put vs number of spent hours I'd say Paradox is one of my less expensive leisures.

In a few years my son may hopefully accept to try multiplaying EUV or StellarisII with his father.

Your original fanbase is ageing, Paradox, and so are you. But be assured that as long as you remain what you've always been, people like me will keep following you

 

[Hertzila]

If a company treats me like garbage, but delivers good stuff with good prices, then I'm a happy customer.

I disagree. The world is chock-full of good games and even starved or "monopolized" genres have a couple of contenders. Why would you use your time to play a game from a company that treats you like garbage, when you almost always have the option to play a good game where the devs and corporate are at least indifferent about you?

While I would say that some verbal acknowledgement ("You're doing good lads!") is nice, I agree that talk is usually cheap and voting with your wallet is a better bet. So why would you vote for dirty business practices, offering no support to their games, telling their player base to shut up and get out and otherwise treating you like garbage, when you have the option to vote for at worst not really noticing you?

It might not have mattered a few years ago, but I'd argue it does today. It's a logical conclusion of the "vote with your wallet" motto.

 

[shadowclasper]

Paradox's business model is something I've been using as a basis (along with other things) for running my own company and helping other folks with theirs, small as we are.

 

[CuQ]

In the wake of BlizzCon and the seemingly intentional tone-deafness that has followed I find myself re-examining the companies that I frequently purchase games from and I realized how few of these companies still seem to be trustworthy enough to not completely screw over their core audience. I gladly count Paradox Interactive among those trusted few.

Stellaris was my first Paradox Interactive game and it is what has turned me into one of their return customers. I have since expanded into HOI4 and Tyranny and plan on getting their new Battletech game when I have the time and money. Their policy on DLC is preferable to the microtransactions, loot boxes, and aggressive monetization found in so many other "Triple A" games and more importantly, they actually communicate and listen to their customers. This company in general, and the Stellaris team in particular, have earned my loyalty and I know that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

With all that said, I'd like to take a moment to just tell any Paradox employees who might be reading this that we appreciate you. Thank you for being awesome!

I'm sorry but I beg to disagree on the DLC part.

Many of the EU4 and CK2 DLC are heavily overpriced, considering they just offer you some random event gimmicks or nation specific decisions. Microtransactions and lootboxes do not make much sense in the context of this game, and "no aggressive monetization" is quite a dubious statement, considering that for example the "full version" of CK2 costs hundreds of dollars on Steam.

Pay 20$ for Conclave the DLC(Mechanics), pay additional 5$ for Conclave the Content Pack(wth?), pay a further 3$ to get one soundtrack. And one of the worst things is that they hide QoL changes behind paywalls. The troop/navy rally points in CK2 are a part of the Jade Dragon DLC even though they are an universal QoL change that has nothing at all to do with the China DLC.

So, you don't feel like buying all the DLC and wallowing through internet messageboards to see what DLC is useless and what is not? Prepare to face a plethora of issues if you try to play any of Paradox's games in vanilla.

 

[Cri11e]

Great thread. Paradox is a really good company and the dlc policy is great for continual development and no microtransactions as mentioned.
BUT therein is also the paradoxical weakness (lmao): Non-paradox players will see the amount of dlcs, their prices and be disgusted, I would.

Thats why its hard for bypassers to pick up the game, and why the multiplayer-host-share-dlcs thing is so brilliant and should literally be on the top of the steam store as a disclaimer.
Ignorant economics might think that will reduce sales but on the contrary.. Players will eventually pick up the dlcs when they notice how much they can do in MP when they get hooked.

Besides even half a customer is better than none, the more the players; The more they come.

Disarming the initial first impression is extremely important.
Good rep is hard to get, easy to lose. (*cough* bethesda)



EDIT:
Also when you look at DLCS on the steam store then you have zero idea how huge the free patch actually are everytime.. So someone who doesn't read patch notes will obviously look at the store pages of each dlcs and be like.. 'What a price for minor things'. This enlargen the perception of paradox as a DLC money grabber. You can test yourself and check a old dlc that you have forgotten the patch notes for and you'll be like... ''Was this it?''

 

[Morwys]

Why would you use your time to play a game from a company that treats you like garbage, when you almost always have the option to play a good game where the devs and corporate are at least indifferent about you?

I was illustrating a point: what do you prefer, good customer service or good products? IMHO, good products are much better than good customer service. If I can have both, I choose both. I thought that was obvious.
EDIT: If you quoted my entire point, that would have been clear:
"If a company treats me like garbage, but delivers good stuff with good prices, then I'm a happy customer. If a company is the nicest in the world, does everything for me, but delivers a bad product, then I don't even bother."

 

[Hertzila]

I was illustrating a point: what do you prefer, good customer service or good products? IMHO, good products are much better than good customer service. If I can have both, I choose both. I thought that was obvious.
EDIT: If you quoted my entire point, that would have been clear:
"If a company treats me like garbage, but delivers good stuff with good prices, then I'm a happy customer. If a company is the nicest in the world, does everything for me, but delivers a bad product, then I don't even bother."

It might be clear, but I think it's also too academic and binary. Sure, decent products are a necessary baseline, but there are so many at least decent ones out there that it makes lumping them into two piles inaccurate. You make it seem like the difference is between 10/10 but accuses me of doing horrible things vs 2/10 but is willing to go to insane lengths to keep me as a customer. I'd frankly take good customer service over good products, because the difference nowdays is more between 9/10 but accuses me of being horrible or tries to nickle and dime for all I own vs 8/10 but is constantly doing all they can to make their product better and is willing to help me with issues while being otherwise reasonable.

Sure, the product might be better in the former case, but if there's an almost as good one out there but with a far more likeable team behind it, why would I go for the former?

 

[Pointyearedgit]

It might be clear, but I think it's also too academic and binary. Sure, decent products are a necessary baseline, but there are so many at least decent ones out there that it makes lumping them into two piles inaccurate. You make it seem like the difference is between 10/10 but accuses me of doing horrible things vs 2/10 but is willing to go to insane lengths to keep me as a customer. I'd frankly take good customer service over good products, because the difference nowdays is more between 9/10 but accuses me of being horrible or tries to nickle and dime for all I own vs 8/10 but is constantly doing all they can to make their product better and is willing to help me with issues while being otherwise reasonable.

Sure, the product might be better in the former case, but if there's an almost as good one out there but with a far more likeable team behind it, why would I go for the former?

I'm thinking he is referring to rather tone-deaf moves by various companies (indeed, this was the basis of the OP's original post). An example would be when Netflix removed DVDs and an executive made the comment that the extra fee "was just a latte".

It was true that the value was still there (and that more would be added) and the that dropping DVDs wouldn't be noticed by many of their customers, but the idea that your customers wouldn't be pissed that you effectively doubled the price for the same service you were providing just a month ago is pretty stupid. Netflix changed their tune eventually, and everything settled down, but shooting themselves in the foot like that was completely unnecessary. A 'heartfelt' apology right away with some discounts and/or emphasis on the launch of new services would have cost little, and pissed off their customers a lot less.

Blizzard will probably recover everything they lost with the DI announcement, they still make fun games, but frittering away customer enthusiasm is just stupid and ends up costing you purchases (and especially pre-orders) that you would otherwise receive.

The point is that companies do stray into this, and people do still buy their products if they are good.

 

[The Traitor]

In the wake of BlizzCon and the seemingly intentional tone-deafness that has followed I find myself re-examining the companies that I frequently purchase games from and I realized how few of these companies still seem to be trustworthy enough to not completely screw over their core audience. I gladly count Paradox Interactive among those trusted few.

Stellaris was my first Paradox Interactive game and it is what has turned me into one of their return customers. I have since expanded into HOI4 and Tyranny and plan on getting their new Battletech game when I have the time and money. Their policy on DLC is preferable to the microtransactions, loot boxes, and aggressive monetization found in so many other "Triple A" games and more importantly, they actually communicate and listen to their customers. This company in general, and the Stellaris team in particular, have earned my loyalty and I know that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

With all that said, I'd like to take a moment to just tell any Paradox employees who might be reading this that we appreciate you. Thank you for being awesome!

agreed. That's why i chose to nominate them on steam.

 

[Hertzila]

I'm thinking he is referring to rather tone-deaf moves by various companies (indeed, this was the basis of the OP's original post). An example would be when Netflix removed DVDs and an executive made the comment that the extra fee "was just a latte".

Blizzard will probably recover everything they lost with the DI announcement, they still make fun games, but frittering away customer enthusiasm is just stupid and ends up costing you purchases (and especially pre-orders) that you would otherwise receive.

The point is that companies do stray into this, and people do still buy their products if they are good.

I understand what he's talking about, I just don't think it's so true anymore and I don't believe in the logic that "everyone else will, so why not me too". Sure, some will always buy it, probably on the idea of "Good product is the only thing that matters." It's also hard to point at a single reason for why something failed, especially since entertainment product quality tends to affect the sales of the next game, not the current one.

But there have been recent product launches that have sold (way) less than expected, less than what they "deserved" by pure quality. It's hard to say how much everything contributed, but to say bad customer service has little to no effect is wrong IMO. At least I'd hope so.

 

[Derp]

I understand what he's talking about, I just don't think it's so true anymore and I don't believe in the logic that "everyone else will, so why not me too". Sure, some will always buy it, probably on the idea of "Good product is the only thing that matters." It's also hard to point at a single reason for why something failed, especially since entertainment product quality tends to affect the sales of the next game, not the current one.

But there have been recent product launches that have sold (way) less than expected, less than what they "deserved" by pure quality. It's hard to say how much everything contributed, but to say bad customer service has little to no effect is wrong IMO. At least I'd hope so.

it's more likely that they just overestimated the market for their product