Can we stop with the map complaints?

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Wizzington

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Really? I seemed to recall EU III and Vicky 2 being played predominately with mods (especially vicky 2), but maybe that's confirmation bias.

It's easy to get that impression from the forums, but what people don't realize is that the vast, vast majority of our players have never been on the forums. Mod popularity took off massively with Steam Workshop precisely because previously you'd have to find the forums to download and install mods.
 
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Why has everyone recently been complaining about the map so much? Everyone so desperately wants to have different places have more detail or whatever, but there are plenty of mods out there that do this already. If you want a better England, then go and play with Beyond the Pale. If you don't like beyond the pale, then create a mod yourself.

I'm so fed up with just scrolling through the dev diaries with people just ranting 'ahhh, still a rubbish lapland' or 'why is uksub serbian it should be bulgarian' or even the worst people who literally just ask 'what, you added a province to Europe and not to the ROTW, how dare you'. Jeez can we not be happy that they are updating the map and keeping it looking awesome (I mean, have you seen the new memel?).
So don't complain... The whole point of a game forum it's for it's community state their desires, reactions, disagreements. I doubt that Paradox will close the forum just because someone for whatever reason doesn't want to read complains in a forum.
 

celethiel

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There's nothing wrong with wanting change, but not all of it can happen at once. Paradox said areas like the Balkans, Britain, France, and so on are in consideration and will be addressed in later patches.
From what i've seen they've already started with the Balkans and France, since in the latest Dev Diary, it showed both 1 addition province in Bosnia and 1 in the ottoman empire. And one in Provence, not to mention the Burgundian Lands have seen at least Structural Changes...
To the talk of Mods, I sometimes Play them, and sometimes don't... I like ones with map changes and I don't like them...
But then the Main areas I play are the Byzantine, Italian and Germanic Regions.
I actually have Never played in Britian, including in England.
 
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Heinrikr

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This is ridiculous. First of all, complaining about complaining is just, well, silly. Secondly, you are in no position to complain about having to scroll past annoying posts when you yourself pollute the main forum with a thread like this. Thirdly, it's a discussion forum for crying out loud! You can't complain about people discussing the game, that is ridiculous! Fourthly, do you see any difference between complaining and suggesting, because I dare you and anyone else to read my post in that dev diary (#83) and tell me with a straight face that is a complaint. It's a suggestion in it's purest form. It did not say "ahh, rubbish lappland". It was a polite question, a suggestion, with proper argumentation, posted in a thread which was much about map changes. Fifthly, you're making strawmen. How do you know I am not happy with the map changes they've made? Of course I am! Is that any reason for not suggesting how it could get even better? Sixthly and finally, your "argument" that we can just go get a mod or do it ourselves is silly. Of course I could mod it. There are plenty of other things I could also mod. Why should paradox include ANY features in the game when we could just mod them in ourselves? There is absolutely no reason at all for paradox to try to make the game better because we can just fix it ourselves. Surely you see that your logic leads to absurdity. Also, have you thought about that some people might want to play ironman? Some people don't know how to mod? And some people, me included, are just genuinely interesting in seeing this game become better and just want to help.
 
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Why has everyone recently been complaining about the map so much? Everyone so desperately wants to have different places have more detail or whatever, but there are plenty of mods out there that do this already. If you want a better England, then go and play with Beyond the Pale. If you don't like beyond the pale, then create a mod yourself.

I'm so fed up with just scrolling through the dev diaries with people just ranting 'ahhh, still a rubbish lapland' or 'why is uksub serbian it should be bulgarian' or even the worst people who literally just ask 'what, you added a province to Europe and not to the ROTW, how dare you'. Jeez can we not be happy that they are updating the map and keeping it looking awesome (I mean, have you seen the new memel?).
You just shot yourself in the foot. Making threads like this (and from what I've seen it's not the first one) only increases this issue, it's reverse psychology. Even if a mod is of superior quality it will never be the same as something the devs officially implemented. Something that's an integral part of the game, something that relates to everyone playing EU4. And it warms your belly to see that the little corner of the world you like, because it's your home, you like it's history or culture or any other bizarre reason, is well represented within the game. Other than that, some individuals obsess over things which for others are irrelevant details, remember that seriousness of an issues is relative. Some look at the ingame map, notice things are not how they're supposed to be and they tear their hair out. What you're doing is exactly the same, over some people promoting their personal agendas, which is the whole point of a forum. To share and discus agendas. That said, there are people who seem excessively obsessed (as if obsession didn't stand for an excessive behaviour on its own), and appear too pushy.

I wish the province of Minsk was chopped, because it's way too big for it's region and it's shape is Uuugleah! Live and let others live.
 
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It's easy to get that impression from the forums, but what people don't realize is that the vast, vast majority of our players have never been on the forums. Mod popularity took off massively with Steam Workshop precisely because previously you'd have to find the forums to download and install mods.

Yeah, that does make sense. Would be interesting to see how much of the player population is active in the forums, it at least seems way higher than any other non mmo game. Especially considering it's a niche market.
 

Mattymooz

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You just shot yourself in the foot. Making threads like this (and from what I've seen it's not the first one) only increases this issue, it's reverse psychology. Even if a mod is of superior quality it will never be the same as something the devs officially implemented. Something that's an integral part of the game, something that relates to everyone playing EU4. And it warms your belly to see that the little corner of the world you like, because it's your home, you like it's history or culture or any other bizarre reason, is well represented within the game. Other than that, some individuals obsess over things which for others are irrelevant details, remember that seriousness of an issues is relative. Some look at the ingame map, notice things are not how they're supposed to be and they tear their hair out. What you're doing is exactly the same, over some people promoting their personal agendas, which is the whole point of a forum. To share and discus agendas. That said, there are people who seem excessively obsessed (as if obsession didn't stand for an excessive behaviour on its own), and appear too pushy.

I wish the province of Minsk was chopped, because it's way too big for it's region and it's shape is Uuugleah! Live and let others live.
Don't get me wrong, I completely get that this is a forum for discussion. If it was a proper discussion rather than just people ranting at paradox for not fixing everything they want irritates me. People who demand that paradox do these improvements immediately (now 5 days before release). Even the people who are civil about it, but decide that they will just spam how much they need a certain improvement in every dev diary.

On top of this 99% of all the map related complaints are about the same thing (Great Britain, the swedish-russian border, the balkans, wastelands and the ROTW needing more provinces) all of which Wiz says in basically every dev diary are either potential places that may be developed for future patches, or in the case of wasteland not going to happen.

Plus, if it was a discussion, it wouldn't be phrased in a way that sounds completely antagonistic (something like 'Why haven't paradox added more BT to Hungary yet'). If it was like 'hi, i think the provinces should look like this <insert map> as <insert reason> '. Personally, I thought Britain and France needed updating, but I don't spam about it everywhere, instead I actually created a mod showing what I thought it should be turned into.

In fact, yea, this is what I would call good discusions:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/improved-france-map.858393/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/improved-hungary-map.859405/

I was like 'yo, this is what I think' and other people replied saying how they would change it, showing me maps and stuff. That is how people should discuss map changes, not whining and B*tching in dev diaries that your homelands haven't been given more provinces in the latest patch.
 
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BFTeixeira

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Don't get me wrong, I completely get that this is a forum for discussion. If it was a proper discussion rather than just people ranting at paradox for not fixing everything they want irritates me. People who demand that paradox do these improvements immediately (now 5 days before release). Even the people who are civil about it, but decide that they will just spam how much they need a certain improvement in every dev diary.

On top of this 99% of all the map related complaints are about the same thing (Great Britain, the swedish-russian border, the balkans, wastelands and the ROTW needing more provinces) all of which Wiz says in basically every dev diary are either potential places that may be developed for future patches, or in the case of wasteland not going to happen.

Plus, if it was a discussion, it wouldn't be phrased in a way that sounds completely antagonistic (something like 'Why haven't paradox added more BT to Hungary yet'). If it was like 'hi, i think the provinces should look like this <insert map> as <insert reason> '. Personally, I thought Britain and France needed updating, but I don't spam about it everywhere, instead I actually created a mod showing what I thought it should be turned into.

In fact, yea, this is what I would call good discusions:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/improved-france-map.858393/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/improved-hungary-map.859405/

I was like 'yo, this is what I think' and other people replied saying how they would change it, showing me maps and stuff. That is how people should discuss map changes, not whining and B*tching in dev diaries that your homelands haven't been given more provinces in the latest patch.
Apply to being a moderator then.
 

jacobsighs

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Have you considered that I want to play Ironman, something which is disabled when using a mod which changes provinces? No? Okay then.
 
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Heinrikr

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Don't get me wrong, I completely get that this is a forum for discussion.
it really doesn't seem as if you get it.
If it was a proper discussion rather than just people ranting at paradox for not fixing everything they want irritates me. People who demand that paradox do these improvements immediately (now 5 days before release). Even the people who are civil about it, but decide that they will just spam how much they need a certain improvement in every dev diary.
Since you seem to point out me in particular (as I am the swedish-finnish border guy), why don't I just point out where and how you are wrong...First, notice the words I've put in bold and underlined. In my case it WAS a proper discussion, I did NOT demand anything, nor did I spam. I posted ONE thread about those borders, which hasn't been active for days now, and I posted ONE post in ONE the dev diary about it (and a couple of replies). Go back and look. If you call that spam, demanding, or inproper in anyway, you are wholly clueless.
On top of this 99% of all the map related complaints are about the same thing (Great Britain, the swedish-russian border, the balkans, wastelands and the ROTW needing more provinces) all of which Wiz says in basically every dev diary are either potential places that may be developed for future patches, or in the case of wasteland not going to happen.
No developer ever posted in my thread, and I have only ONCE posted about those borders in ONE dev diary, which Wiz responded to. To clarify, I have only asked ONCE in a dev diary and I have only gotten an answer ONCE. That is NOT spam for crying out loud! Wiz said they're are aware of the problem, and I liked the post. End of story.
Plus, if it was a discussion, it wouldn't be phrased in a way that sounds completely antagonistic (something like 'Why haven't paradox added more BT to Hungary yet'). If it was like 'hi, i think the provinces should look like this <insert map> as <insert reason> '. Personally, I thought Britain and France needed updating, but I don't spam about it everywhere, instead I actually created a mod showing what I thought it should be turned into.
Oh, you mean like this?

"It's very good that you try to fix areas which have not been improved since eu3, but you have missed one area: northern scandinavia, area around lappland, kola, väster- and österbotten. All that needs to be done is adding one province, so let me make a case for it. Firstly, the current borders are not pleasing to the eye. Secondly, it make it impossible to get the historical swedish-russian border. Thirdly, since you are adding a sami revolter tag, you might as well add another sami and shamanist province. Fourthly, it would more accurately model that there actually lived shamanist samis rather than catholic finns there. And finally, this would be a lowly developed sami and shamanist province, so it wouldn't really be a buff to sweden, in case people were worried about that. You already have that province layout in ck2 btw. What say ye, devs?"

(I tried to post image also, but it didn't work). Does that post not follow your ideal template? Does it sound antagonistic to you? Let me answer those for you: Yes and no. So what the hell are you complaining about?
 
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Trytols

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EUIV is probably the only PDOX title many people with vanilla, largely because of ironman

Hope that one day Paradox will enable a "Ironman Mode" (achievements OFF) with Mods that change the checksum. Dunno why not exist yet.
 
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VincentX

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So the threadstarter wants us to stop giving feedback to Paradox? :rolleyes:

Nope, never ever gonna happen. We talk of improvements because Paradox does an awesome job of actually listening to their players. What some call complaining, I call passion for an amazing game.
 
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celethiel

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So the threadstarter wants us to stop giving feedback to Paradox? :rolleyes:

Nope, never ever gonna happen. We talk of improvements because Paradox does an awesome job of actually listening to their players. What some call complaining, I call passion for an amazing game.
maybe they think that feedback is actually whining, complaining, and otherwise being contrary... :p
 

OldmansHQ

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Don't get me wrong, I completely get that this is a forum for discussion. If it was a proper discussion rather than just people ranting at paradox for not fixing everything they want irritates me. People who demand that paradox do these improvements immediately (now 5 days before release). Even the people who are civil about it, but decide that they will just spam how much they need a certain improvement in every dev diary.

On top of this 99% of all the map related complaints are about the same thing (Great Britain, the swedish-russian border, the balkans, wastelands and the ROTW needing more provinces) all of which Wiz says in basically every dev diary are either potential places that may be developed for future patches, or in the case of wasteland not going to happen.

Plus, if it was a discussion, it wouldn't be phrased in a way that sounds completely antagonistic (something like 'Why haven't paradox added more BT to Hungary yet'). If it was like 'hi, i think the provinces should look like this <insert map> as <insert reason> '. Personally, I thought Britain and France needed updating, but I don't spam about it everywhere, instead I actually created a mod showing what I thought it should be turned into.

In fact, yea, this is what I would call good discusions:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/improved-france-map.858393/
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/improved-hungary-map.859405/

I was like 'yo, this is what I think' and other people replied saying how they would change it, showing me maps and stuff. That is how people should discuss map changes, not whining and B*tching in dev diaries that your homelands haven't been given more provinces in the latest patch.
If there was a button "Noted" I would press that, but since we only have "Helpful", "Agree" and "Disagree", I will not. Now here's something that should have been suggested a while ago :).
 

Aries666

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Why has everyone recently been complaining about the map so much? Everyone so desperately wants to have different places have more detail or whatever, but there are plenty of mods out there that do this already. If you want a better England, then go and play with Beyond the Pale. If you don't like beyond the pale, then create a mod yourself.

I'm so fed up with just scrolling through the dev diaries with people just ranting 'ahhh, still a rubbish lapland' or 'why is uksub serbian it should be bulgarian' or even the worst people who literally just ask 'what, you added a province to Europe and not to the ROTW, how dare you'. Jeez can we not be happy that they are updating the map and keeping it looking awesome (I mean, have you seen the new memel?).
The position "if you don't like it, mod it" is possibly one of the worst arguments ever.
 
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Aries666

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Can I ask why? What is it that you don't like?
The only mod I have played was shattered Europa, the concept, that everything is broken down, sounds good on paper. However, the implementation was aweful because they hadn't adjusted the AE levels, so that mean that starting as any nation you got a mega coalition that you could not withstand from conquering a handful of provinces. After that I haven't played a mod, vanilla is just better.