Can we get the modding etc forum area back?

[Tnarien]

Does this make more sense?

No. All I'm getting is "it's alright to mod, so long as you don't talk about modding, except when someone randomly decides you can talk about modding, but only in that bubble, and only until that person changes their mind".

I respect you trying to be nuanced. That's not what you're doing. You're being inconsistent, and confusing as hell.

Walking the modding tightrope ain't new. Nor is having TPTD be somewhat, or not at all, supportive of it.

But please just make up your mind about how as an organization you're going to handle it, and be consistent about it. Having to re-evaluate what to put where, and what to discuss where, every thirty seconds is incredibly annoying.

I'm not disagreeing that rules or discussion limitations are necessary. Just be consistent.

 

[Timaeus]

No. All I'm getting is "it's alright to mod, so long as you don't talk about modding, except when someone randomly decides you can talk about modding, but only in that bubble, and only until that person changes their mind".

I respect you trying to be nuanced. That's not what you're doing. You're being inconsistent, and confusing as hell.

Walking the modding tightrope ain't new. Nor is having TPTD be somewhat, or not at all, supportive of it.

But please just make up your mind about how as an organization you're going to handle it, and be consistent about it. Having to re-evaluate what to put where, and what to discuss where, every thirty seconds is incredibly annoying.

I'm not disagreeing that rules or discussion limitations are necessary. Just be consistent.

Players can mod the game as long as they don't decrypt the few files that are obfuscated. There will be no support for modding. So don't expect an area set aside for it, or tools, or steam workshop support. They might happen, they might not, but don't get your hopes up. The "whys" as to why it's allowed but no support is given are more complicated, and are what the commander was trying to explain without breaching confidentiality.

 

[CmdrDunsail]

No. All I'm getting is "it's alright to mod, so long as you don't talk about modding, except when someone randomly decides you can talk about modding, but only in that bubble, and only until that person changes their mind".

I respect you trying to be nuanced. That's not what you're doing. You're being inconsistent, and confusing as hell.

Walking the modding tightrope ain't new. Nor is having TPTD be somewhat, or not at all, supportive of it.

But please just make up your mind about how as an organization you're going to handle it, and be consistent about it. Having to re-evaluate what to put where, and what to discuss where, every thirty seconds is incredibly annoying.

I'm not disagreeing that rules or discussion limitations are necessary. Just be consistent.

Greetings Tnarien!

My explanation wasn't being nuanced. I was sharing as a well informed fellow community member how the issue is nuanced and laid some of it out. There has been no inconsistency. But it's not a "simple" issue. Please don't confuse complexity of the issue for lack of consistency.

Nor did I say anything about not talking about modding. I stated the opposite in fact. However, some uncommon sense would need to be applied when doing so as not to cause problems for the devs, other modders, for yourself as a modder, and the rest of the community in general.

There are a lot of awesome things the modding community can do. It doesn't mean all those things should be presented on the official forums, because some of those things can be problematic. Consult with other modders in the community who understand the legal implications as they relate to Battletech, privately, so the modding community can put its best foot forward on the official forums. There are dedicated modding communities for this already on Discord and elsewhere.

 

[Amechwarrior]

So I got some questions about external images and links in regards to modding:

Can we use image hosting sites like imgur.com for hosting images to be linked in a forum post here?

Can we use link to sites like mega/dropbox/etc to host files?

I used both of those extensively on the btgame.com forums to share images and files across countless threads, but most critically in my modded AI and Post-Beta Mod Pack threads. If I can't even link to an external site (per rules here), how would I even distribute a mod file? Sites like imgur are primarily for file hosting, but also contain user interaction, so I don't know if that falls in to some kind of grey area.

 

[Colonel Flamestalker]

So I got some questions about external images and links in regards to modding:

Can we use image hosting sites like imgur.com for hosting images to be linked in a forum post here?

Can we use link to sites like mega/dropbox/etc to host files?

I used both of those extensively on the btgame.com forums to share images and files across countless threads, but most critically in my modded AI and Post-Beta Mod Pack threads. If I can't even link to an external site (per rules here), how would I even distribute a mod file? Sites like imgur are primarily for file hosting, but also contain user interaction, so I don't know if that falls in to some kind of grey area.

If I read the rules correctly, you might have to ask Paradox to see if you can link them.

 

[Amechwarrior]

If I read the rules correctly, you might have to ask Paradox to see if you can link them.

If every potential modder needs to contact PDX every time they want to establish a mod project, that's just going to kill the scene before it's born here. I did find this page about mods relating to PDX developed games, and that seems to recommend external, public fileshare sites as the way to host files. I also see a lot of LP's linking to youtube in various games's subforums, so that's probably OK to use. It would be nice if there was some kind of clarification for people coming over form btgame.com regarding what sites are OK for external linking. As basically every site has some kind of user interaction segement, the rules in the Forum's user agreement about external linking seem outdated, overly restricting and more like "guidelines" given by the kind of content I see other PDX forums posting.

I don't have any strong feelings about the move here, but a lot of these rules seem kind of silly for an internet forum in 2018.

 

[Colonel Flamestalker]

If every potential modder needs to contact PDX every time they want to establish a mod project, that's just going to kill the scene before it's born here. I did find this page about mods relating to PDX developed games, and that seems to recommend external, public fileshare sites as the way to host files. I also see a lot of LP's linking to youtube in various games's subforums, so that's probably OK to use. It would be nice if there was some kind of clarification for people coming over form btgame.com regarding what sites are OK for external linking. As basically every site has some kind of user interaction segement, the rules in the Forum's user agreement about external linking seem outdated, overly restricting and more like "guidelines" given by the kind of content I see other PDX forums posting.

I don't have any strong feelings about the move here, but a lot of these rules seem kind of silly for an internet forum in 2018.

I'm still getting familiar with all the rules, insert not a lawyer statement here, https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/forum-user-agreement-rules.544261/ which also states (I think you've seen this one, someone posted it here earlier but I can no longer see it)

7. {No External Links} You will not post a link to an external website or forum without prior approval of an Administrator. (Sites with no user interaction (that only host media are okay, as long as that media meets and obeys all other rules) You will not link to images on other websites unless you have authorization to do so (or the site is designed for that purpose). This kind of "hot linking" is stealing the bandwidth of the server you link from, and is not appreciated. You will not post material (including text, images, graphics or other artwork) unless the copyright is owned by you, and/or Paradox, and/or the material is not in violation of any NDA (non-disclosure agreement) that you may have signed, and/or you have the expressed permission of the copyright holder to do so, and/or you fully attribute the holder of the copyrighted material.

I can't really say much more unitl i'm more familiar with how this forum operates. I think the Commander also made some statements about IP above that may be useful.

 

[Packrat]

The site's rules contain the following section (emphasis mine): {No External Links} You will not post a link to an external website or forum without prior approval of an Administrator. (Sites with no user interaction (that only host media are okay, as long as that media meets and obeys all other rules)
My interpretation is that mod files can be linked as long as they're hosted on a site whose sole function is hosting/sharing files.

Edit: Ninja'd.

 

[Amechwarrior]

The site's rules contain the following section (emphasis mine): {No External Links} You will not post a link to an external website or forum without prior approval of an Administrator. (Sites with no user interaction (that only host media are okay, as long as that media meets and obeys all other rules)
My interpretation is that mod files can be linked as long as they're hosted on a site whose sole function is hosting/sharing files.

Edit: Ninja'd.

Yes, yet the various LP's on this site are all on youtube, which has tons of user interaction. I also see a Stellaris meme thread that users frequently externally link to imgflip images, another site with user interaction and etc. I'm browsing the other games forums I can see and it feel like that external linking thing is more a guideline than a rule. Like for example, what if we wanted to link to a sarna page to reference something? Are we just not allowed to on this forum? That's not a media host, but something that would come up a lot in a forum about a Battletech game.

 

[Colonel Flamestalker]

Yes, yet the various LP's on this site are all on youtube, which has tons of user interaction. I also see a Stellaris meme thread that users frequently externally link to imgflip images, another site with user interaction and etc. I'm browsing the other games forums I can see and it feel like that external linking thing is more a guideline than a rule. Like for example, what if we wanted to link to a sarna page to reference something? Are we just not allowed to on this forum? That's not a media host, but something that would come up a lot in a forum about a Battletech game.

Sarna may be ok, as it's similar to Wikipedia. it may pay to check first. I think I saw somewhere they allow Wikipedia links.

 

[Colonel Flamestalker]

You could PM @Castellon or @TinyWiking with your questions. Bear in mind some of the info the Commander posted above.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

Some stuff I found when looking around:
As Castellon, Paradox Forum Manager pointed out: "Links to a wiki site without a user forum composed mainly of our members is fine." I think sarna counts as a wiki, so it should be ok, so is wikipedia. Maybe even the modding wiki mentioned earlier. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...r-agreement-rules.544261/page-3#post-12573328

There also are rules regarding mods for PDS games, of which most would likely work for HBS:BT, too: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...user-made-mods-and-edits-of-pds-games.708039/

 

[TinyWiking]

Late to the party but to add to the forum structure question:
I've set this up after talking to the good people at HBS, adding forums is not a major undertaking and I'll happily do that if that's requested.

 

[Eximar]

Whether it's called Off Topic or Modding, a sub-forum would certainly be appreciated.

 

[Prussian Havoc]

This is very promising. Thank you good @TinyWiking ! :bow:

 

[Jamey]

Sarna may be ok, as it's similar to Wikipedia. it may pay to check first. I think I saw somewhere they allow Wikipedia links.

I’d think that Sarna would probably be ok from my understanding of the rules. Hopefully once HBS gets their moderator staff up and running here we can get an official ruling on that.

EDIT: Sigh. Autocorrect.

 

[ronhatch]

Huh. I could have sworn that when I was first checking out this site that I ran across something that looked like it was a consistently available modding section for any game they support. Can't find it now.

I think there was some indication that it's only available once you've registered ownership of the game, though, so if that isn't just my imagination it would be after we've received the upcoming forum codes from our backerkit accounts.

 

[Fox the Apprentice]

Also, keep in mind: Anything you directly post (linking is different) on the forums is then owned by Paradox.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

Which is not really a problem concerning modding, because you already edit stuff that is already owned and/or licensed by HBS/Paradox and are not allowed to add IP of others. If you add content solely created by yourself, you might want to upload elsewhere and link it here, if you are just messing with the .json-files, IMHO it does not change anything to upload it here.

I just saw you are allowed to upload files up to 300mb here. That's plenty, if you consider the jsons in the beta being about 5mb at all.

Huh. I could have sworn that when I was first checking out this site that I ran across something that looked like it was a consistently available modding section for any game they support. Can't find it now.

I think there was some indication that it's only available once you've registered ownership of the game, though, so if that isn't just my imagination it would be after we've received the upcoming forum codes from our backerkit accounts.

For Stellaris at least, there is a modding section. Didn't check the other games, but keep in mind there is far less IP-clusterf**k involved with games solely owned by Paradox than there is with battletech with all the partys involved, so we might hit some kinda legal "wall" when it comes to officially support modding in any form.

 

[Amechwarrior]

For now, mod home threads are being stored in the Fan Art/Fiction/Creation subforum as they don't have a better place to put them.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/amechwarriors-post-beta-mod-pack-amp.1074160/