Can we get the modding etc forum area back?

[Rob-Starfleet-Graham]

Kinda says it but HBS at least gave us an area where we could talk about mods etc with out clogging up the main forums it also made it easier for every one as we could list places like the btmoddingwiki.warriorsblood.com etc up for people and all the mods etc etc.. we've lost that here.. can we please get it back?

 

[Colonel Flamestalker]

Kinda says it but HBS at least gave us an area where we could talk about mods etc with out clogging up the main forums it also made it easier for every one as we could list places like the btmoddingwiki.warriorsblood.com etc up for people and all the mods etc etc.. we've lost that here.. can we please get it back?

There are a lot of threads earmarked to be brought over. The modding threads are amongst those listed for transfer.

 

[Timaeus]

I could be wrong but there probably won't be an official modding section because that would imply "support", which is something HBS has said they will not give. That said the "BattleTech Universe" or the "BATTLETECH Fan art, fiction & creations" sections may be reasonable areas to post such things. We'll have to see.

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

I don't think creating a modding subforum would imply some sort of "support" except for "we want you to find stuff concerning modding and not clutter other forums with it", so i strongly hope we get one. The games json structure allows for tons of customization and modding, so there most likely will be a lot of stuff to discuss regarding this. Having a "fan art, fiction and creations"-subforum does not imply support for fan art, does it? It just gives a separate space for ppl to release their work and allows others to easily find and discuss it.

 

[CmdrDunsail]

I don't think creating a modding subforum would imply some sort of "support" except for "we want you to find stuff concerning modding and not clutter other forums with it", so i strongly hope we get one. The games json structure allows for tons of customization and modding, so there most likely will be a lot of stuff to discuss regarding this. Having a "fan art, fiction and creations"-subforum does not imply support for fan art, does it? It just gives a separate space for ppl to release their work and allows others to easily find and discuss it.

Greetings 44th MAC:Bonsai!

https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/9008/comments/167030

A gentle reminder, and something - from experience - many modders either don't know, do know but don't have a broader legal grasp of what it means for the devs in their country, or (understandably) dislike: HBS themselves are constrained by not owning the Battletech IP, having to exist within contractual boundaries themselves, and as a business which supports livelihoods must respect other Battletech related companies interests as not to unintendedly cause friendly fire, nor trigger a return barrage. Modders can sometimes skate by and do much which sometimes companies cannot, but at a risk of tripping over some of those same legal issues if they attract too much attention.

This message isn't to silence or inhibit the modding community, only to request that in said shared frustrations, not just respectful phrasing, but respect for the devs needful restraint please be kept in mind. They obviously love what ya'll do creatively (unlike some companies these devs really do), but may be unable to be outwardly supportive of certain aspects of it.

 

[Tnarien]

There's a (large) list of modding related threads I put together for Dagger to bring over. She is aware of them, and as far as I can tell they are in the queue to make the jump.

 

[CmdrDunsail]

Greetings 44th MAC:Bonsai!

https://community.battletechgame.com/forums/threads/9008/comments/167030

There's a (large) list of modding related threads I put together for Dagger to bring over. She is aware of them, and as far as I can tell they are in the queue to make the jump.

Please bear in mind, some (most) of the suggested/requested threads may have to be moved over by the community, not HBS. The devs only have so much time on their hands

...and there may be...other...concerns with a dev moving certain thread content:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ng-etc-forum-area-back.1072399/#post-23859793

@Faenaris sets a good community example with his Transcript thread https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/battletech-q-a-transcript-thread.1072169/

 

[44th MAC|Bonsai]

Greetings, CmdrDunsail. It is good to see you are here, both too and again.

I might not get the full legal repercussions coming with discussing modding on an official board, but if I get this right: If it is allowed at all, doesn't this alone create the same problems we'd have if there actually WAS a subforum? As I understand, discussing changes to the game is ok here (within the legal boundaries of copyright of course), so someone could already read some sort of support or at least acceptance into it. Giving it a dedicated subforum would not change this IMHO (although my opinion barely counts, I just would like to find stuff I'm interested in easily and am not a lawyer.)

Having a dedicated subforum would also make it easier for forum moderators to see if topics violate the boundaries in which modding may be discussed here. So, if I'm not missing something important, it would be some kind of a win-win-scenario.

 

[CmdrDunsail]

Greetings, CmdrDunsail. It is good to see you are here, both too and again.

I might not get the full legal repercussions coming with discussing modding on an official board, but if I get this right: If it is allowed at all, doesn't this alone create the same problems we'd have if there actually WAS a subforum? As I understand, discussing changes to the game is ok here (within the legal boundaries of copyright of course), so someone could already read some sort of support or at least acceptance into it. Giving it a dedicated subforum would not change this IMHO (although my opinion barely counts, I just would like to find stuff I'm interested in easily and am not a lawyer.)

Having a dedicated subforum would also make it easier for forum moderators to see if topics violate the boundaries in which modding may be discussed here. So, if I'm not missing something important, it would be some kind of a win-win-scenario.

Thanks MAC

Simply put, as I understand it the devs may not be able to take *an action* which can be construed as "supporting" activity that goes against the interests of their licensors. Approving and creating a dedicated modding forum can be construed as taking an action in "support" of modding. They don't have to go out of their way though to stop discussion of modding so long as there isn't something about it that's brought to their attention which causes them a legal problem. On a personal level, a number of the devs have expressed appreciation for the community's modders and interest in modding. They're not personally against it, and even appreciate it on a personal level. So, active action vs passive appreciation...see?

Now, I also can't speak to how PDX might choose to address things. I can say, from everything I've seen, I personally strongly suggest establishing the modding community somewhere the modding community can control its own content, while discussing it here to keep folks informed of what the modding scene is up to. This isn't an end-run around the rules, it's a legitimate way to constructively offset potential legal problems for the devs which would put them at odds with the community.

I hope this helps, with a reminder this is only my personal understanding and isn't in any way official.

HBS however has stated that though they won't support modding, they're not going to go out of their way to stop it. The un-obfuscated .json files and such is a good example of that, instead of encrypting and obfuscating all the game files the way some companies do to deter modding. HBS loves us, they just can't overreach their own licensing limitations because they don't own the Battletech IP.

 

[Rob-Starfleet-Graham]

Dunsail as you know we've already been told that we are allowed to mod, they have already stated it many times even on the QnA that we are allowed to mod but we will get no offical tools to help us in it, On the old forums we had the beta offtopic area which was Literally for the most part solely used by and large by the modding community to post their items and work, HBS did not object to us doing so, actually they encouraged us and even went out of their way to give us extra information that we didn't have.

Look at the last QnA where they openly mention that they don't object to us modding the game all I requested is that we have like eveyr other game on these forums a place to talk about such with out clogging up the rest of the forums, because to be honest we'd prefer not to I mean that's why the off-topic forum got made last time.

 

[Rob-Starfleet-Graham]

And I'll also note that Mitch, Mike and even Jordan have been asked time and time again and time and time again have said that yes modding is fine, no offical support for it but the files are all in json so long as we don't decompile code they don't care.

You comments for us to take it to where we can control it means splitting the community even further which we would prefer not to do, especially given again M,M & J all have said on both written and even Vocal record we can MOD the game.

 

[CmdrDunsail]

Dunsail as you know we've already been told that we are allowed to mod,

I was the one who made the Beta Off-Topic forum

And, HBS didn't "give permission" for people to mod the game. They said they wouldn't go out of their way to stop modding. There's a distinct difference here for the devs. And some of the devs have expressed personal appreciation for the efforts and creativity of the modders, which is different from an official statement from HBS. These distinctions are important to not cause legal problems for the devs. Capiche'?

 

[Jade_Rook]

First, I'd really like to see a dedicated modding forum here, at least when the game gets released. I don't think that will imply support for modding, it will just be a more organized way of managing the discussions. Also, if they don't provide a modding forum, we will just take over an Off-Topic forum again . I think we will need some prohibitions regarding posting particular content which might be subject to the current legal shenanigans.

Second, I'm not sure how much of the modding content actually needs to be brought over. Much of what we did was based on the beta and we don't know how much files will change in the full release. I don't expect the JSON format to change substantially, but we have seen that some of the game will change. We have built up a good information base, and I don't want to lose that... but I don't know how much of it will still be good info based on the full release version.

 

[CmdrDunsail]

We have built up a good information base, and I don't want to lose that... but I don't know how much of it will still be good info based on the full release version.

As I understand it, there's a wiki already with info for the modding community. Any information modders don't want to lose, should likely be updated there, or in another dedicated modding resource.

What will occur here on this forum I cannot speak to. I can only lend my personal experience and advice. If folks don't listen to what I'm saying, knowing I was the community Administrator for over two years on the previous official forums, I think they'll be setting themselves up for disappointment.

Ultimately I do hope there's a way for the modding community to have a sub-forum here, but I'm not sure that it's feasible for HBS or Paradox to do. I know it wasn't something HBS could do on the previous official forum.

I don't think HBS will shut down non-problematic (from a legal standpoint) modding discussion here, but I'm not yet familiar enough with PDX's management of these issues to say whether it'll be problematic here or not. I do think to offset these problems, the Battletech modding community should establish a central community clearinghouse that isn't managed by companies with restrictions of their own.

 

[Chaon]

And I'll also note that Mitch, Mike and even Jordan have been asked time and time again and time and time again have said that yes modding is fine, no offical support for it but the files are all in json so long as we don't decompile code they don't care.

You comments for us to take it to where we can control it means splitting the community even further which we would prefer not to do, especially given again M,M & J all have said on both written and even Vocal record we can MOD the game.

And this is where people get a bit confused.

Mitch and Jordan and the devs say players can mod the JSON data files. But players can not mod the executable files or change the coding.

That is a distinction that some people forget about.

 

[Jade_Rook]

As I understand it, there's a wiki already with info for the modding community. Any information modders don't want to lose, should likely be updated there, or in another dedicated modding resource.

What will occur here on this forum I cannot speak to. I can only lend my personal experience and advice. If folks don't listen to what I'm saying, knowing I was the community Administrator for over two years on the previous official forums, I think they'll be setting themselves up for disappointment.

Ultimately I do hope there's a way for the modding community to have a sub-forum here, but I'm not sure that it's feasible for HBS or Paradox to do. I know it wasn't something HBS could do on the previous official forum.

I don't think HBS will shut down non-problematic (from a legal standpoint) modding discussion here, but I'm not yet familiar enough with PDX's management of these issues to say whether it'll be problematic here or not. I do think to offset these problems, the Battletech modding community should establish a central community clearinghouse that isn't managed by companies with restrictions of their own.

If it turns out not to be feasible to have a modding subforum, we will accept it and work around it. I am just making a request as a community member.
Of all communities, I would hope that ours can accept that there are legal restrictions which we must abide by.

 

[Rob-Starfleet-Graham]

Chaon: To my knowledge No one has decompiled any of the compiled DLL and or exe's. The ruling was no decompiling compiled source code, which NONE of the modding community has done and I'd personally remove any wiki threads that showed up showing it, not to mention that the entire engine is unity and the code is obfuscated by unity compile.

What i find amusing is people acting like I don't know the modding history here.. I do host the wiki and posted the first stuff for adding portaits etc so I do know the history here and again I asked the powers that be three times because we didn't want to run into any legal issues of HBS coming and shutting down the wiki or the like or them closing our threads on the old forums.

But in the end I asked a question if we could get a sub forum like the rest of the games on here, Dagger can either say yes or no if it's no then it's no but again we would rather be able to not have to create yet another forum or the like given that Paradox already have modding sub-forums on here.

I'll take Paradox and HBS word as final on it but yeah asking doesn't hurt any one.

i'll also note that where we basically get TOLD to do it.

 

[CmdrDunsail]

Chaon: To my knowledge No one has decompiled any of the compiled DLL and or exe's. The ruling was no decompiling compiled source code, which NONE of the modding community has done and I'd personally remove any wiki threads that showed up showing it, not to mention that the entire engine is unity and the code is obfuscated by unity compile.

What i find amusing is people acting like I don't know the modding history here.. I do host the wiki and posted the first stuff for adding portaits etc so I do know the history here and again I asked the powers that be three times because we didn't want to run into any legal issues of HBS coming and shutting down the wiki or the like or them closing our threads on the old forums.

But in the end I asked a question if we could get a sub forum like the rest of the games on here, Dagger can either say yes or no if it's no then it's no but again we would rather be able to not have to create yet another forum or the like given that Paradox already have modding sub-forums on here.

I'll take Paradox and HBS word as final on it but yeah asking doesn't hurt any one.

Asking is fine. However the thread topic insinuating there was an official modding area in the first place on the old forums, which there wasn't, and that you want to get it "back" on these forums, is part of the reason for my own reply here. That misinforms other people into thinking there was something official which is now being taken away.

As the Beta test is over, there won't be a Beta forum here, so in that sense...sure. But this forum has an official Off-Topic discussion section, which means the Battletech section here likely won't get one, even if I think it should.

On the old forum, I created a Beta Off-Topic forum for non-feedback related discussion of the Beta, and I had no problem with (and did appreciate) modding discussion occurring there in relation to the Beta. That is very different from an official modding section.

I wish you the best of luck, but how you go about things may end up shooting your own efforts in the foot. I'm trying to help you to not do that, so you have greater chances of having a successful modding community which gets greater recognition.

Edit: And yes, some modders have begun digging into the DLL's, and have posted about it on the GBC.

 

[Rob-Starfleet-Graham]

Asking is fine. However the thread topic insinuating there was an official modding area in the first place on the old forums, which there wasn't, and that you want to get it "back" on these forums, is part of the reason for my own reply here. That misinforms other people into thinking there was something official which is now being taken away.

As the Beta test is over, there won't be a Beta forum here, so in that sense...sure. But this forum has an official Off-Topic discussion section, which means the Battletech section here likely won't get one, even if I think it should.

On the old forum, I created a Beta Off-Topic forum for non-feedback related discussion of the Beta, and I had no problem with (and did appreciate) modding discussion occurring there in relation to the Beta. That is very different from an official modding section.

I wish you the best of luck, but how you go about things may end up shooting your own efforts in the foot. I'm trying to help you to not do that, so you have greater chances of having a successful modding community which gets greater recognition.

I did say etc.. meaning modding/offtopic etc I get that atm I'm coming across short and I possibly shouldn't be communicating given at the moment I'm very sore, pain killered and lacking sleep I'm not meaning to come across as a grumpy A-hole Dunsail.. i'm not but the problem I see is this HBS wants us to keep the community together, we've asked again and again about the modding and as i pointed out been told it's ok, the first time I posted anything on modding the beta not meaning to again cause offence you were 'I don't think your allowed to do this' until I posted again in the Q&A and went 'Are we allowed' and got told again Yes.

If I come across as.. argumentive it's because it seems like we constantly get told by the head of HBS go 'mod the game' and then err you might not be allowed by mods on the forums and that gets confusing, plus while yes we have discord, we have reddit and the like we don't want to split the community up mate, we love the community I like the work you've done helping us these past 2 years, I like the helpful way we all tend to be even when some of us are like me short and grumpy

Anywya I've asked most we can get is no.. and again sorry if i'm coming across grumpy not meaning too mate nothing but respect for you as you know.

 

[Jade_Rook]

The move to this forum was announced Thursday. That means they have had one full business day to work on this - while also creating the game we will be modding.

These things take a bit of time to work out. They need to figure out how a modding subforum might work with Paradox and the EU's laws, combined with the Battletech's own tangled ownership.

We need to be a little patient with the transition. I see nothing wrong with asking for a modding subforum. They know that it would help us. We will see if they can, but that takes some time.