Can we get a rework for pirate nations?

[Rainwors]

First of all i want to say i only played as Tortuga pirate nation and is arrogant of my part say this without playing every nation, but the mission tree was extremly boring and they are almost just claims, and the mechanics some kind not interestening, but does not really feels you are playing with pirate, you only have 4 political partys and that's it.

I know pirate in this game is a button on the ships, and it can't get more far beyond of this mechanic, but must to be something more to do about pirate nations gameplay, you are not just another type of government in a random nation.

At least my idea is having to fight other pirates ships of your nation (like factions) or others nations. Or make a different type of system of contracting ships throught a government mechanic and pirate factions. Make me want to expand on coasts and islands and not become an average land nation. The new world feels empty where there is 2 colonies that occupied everything and you, as pirate nation you just conquer all with extreme ease in the new world.

At least we should all notice that if you are not playing in a mp, in the new world is not happening nothing interesting, maybe a change on this should liven things up. I hope not recieve too much hate for this, have a nice day.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

So is the issue the lack of mission tree? If so try being a pirate nation somewhere else in the world. The Pirates of the Caribbean™ all share the same mission tree. I would argue that this is in character. "Do what you want because a Pirate is free!" I wouldn't expect ambitions beyond acquiring gold, spending gold then acquire some more.

If its conquering the new world without any real resistance then that's an issue for everyone who plays in the new world pirate or not. As soon as you have institutions you are light years ahead of anything else on the continent and colonies wont become a threat unless left alone for a century at least. This sounds like the main reason you didn't enjoy your Tortuga experience. I advise raising the Black flag on stranger tides. Aka Asia.

Lets go over Pirate Gameplay:

Game play wise Pirate nations play very differently to other nations. You will struggle to get any allies and are likely a small fish in a big pond. But your ace in the hole is your naval bonuses. For this reason you should stay away from mainland provinces and only conquer islands. Remain an Island Boy! You will very quickly hit your Naval force limit many times over with the amount of Captured ships in your service. No matter the size of the enemy if they cannot land they cannot defeat you.

War against the world doctrine: You get early Imperialism! This is a big one and helps you "liberate" Islands all over the world. IF you do decide for a land conquest (ugh) then at least you are equipped with the right CB.

Pirate King: Although you would have to give up your War against the world to pick this its good for switching too when imperialism comes naturally or when you are sitting pretty on all the Islands you are happy with (all of them). This allows you to have a proto monarch picked from your best Admirals with their stats based on their admiral pips and as you will have Naval Tradition in the high 90's most of the time. It means you can depend on a steady stream of high stat rulers.

Raid and Raze: Its a late reform but as you are a republic you will get reforms quickly. But Pirate nations are the only ones to my knowledge that can raid and raze essentially turning you into a sea horde.

The only thing to really watch for is keeping the Republican Tradition high and the only thing you can really do is keep the Buccaneers faction in charge.

As I mentioned previously Asia is peak pirate experience. Through raids and privateerng alone you can topple the Ming Empire. Proclaim a Thalassocracy Lock the Europeans out of colonialism in Asia and Scrooge McDuck-it-up in more ducats than you will know what to do with.

Palembang and So can flip to PR very early via event. but Madyas in the Philippines is my top pick, Its has almost entirely naval ideas combined with its location is practically begging for you to plunder the seven seas.

Yes I like playing Pirates.

 

[Rainwors]

So is the issue the lack of mission tree? If so try being a pirate nation somewhere else in the world. The Pirates of the Caribbean™ all share the same mission tree. I would argue that this is in character. "Do what you want because a Pirate is free!" I wouldn't expect ambitions beyond acquiring gold, spending gold then acquire some more.

If its conquering the new world without any real resistance then that's an issue for everyone who plays in the new world pirate or not. As soon as you have institutions you are light years ahead of anything else on the continent and colonies wont become a threat unless left alone for a century at least. This sounds like the main reason you didn't enjoy your Tortuga experience. I advise raising the Black flag on stranger tides. Aka Asia.

Lets go over Pirate Gameplay:

Game play wise Pirate nations play very differently to other nations. You will struggle to get any allies and are likely a small fish in a big pond. But your ace in the hole is your naval bonuses. For this reason you should stay away from mainland provinces and only conquer islands. Remain an Island Boy! You will very quickly hit your Naval force limit many times over with the amount of Captured ships in your service. No matter the size of the enemy if they cannot land they cannot defeat you.

War against the world doctrine: You get early Imperialism! This is a big one and helps you "liberate" Islands all over the world. IF you do decide for a land conquest (ugh) then at least you are equipped with the right CB.

Pirate King: Although you would have to give up your War against the world to pick this its good for switching too when imperialism comes naturally or when you are sitting pretty on all the Islands you are happy with (all of them). This allows you to have a proto monarch picked from your best Admirals with their stats based on their admiral pips and as you will have Naval Tradition in the high 90's most of the time. It means you can depend on a steady stream of high stat rulers.

Raid and Raze: Its a late reform but as you are a republic you will get reforms quickly. But Pirate nations are the only ones to my knowledge that can raid and raze essentially turning you into a sea horde.

The only thing to really watch for is keeping the Republican Tradition high and the only thing you can really do is keep the Buccaneers faction in charge.

As I mentioned previously Asia is peak pirate experience. Through raids and privateerng alone you can topple the Ming Empire. Proclaim a Thalassocracy Lock the Europeans out of colonialism in Asia and Scrooge McDuck-it-up in more ducats than you will know what to do with.

Palembang and So can flip to PR very early via event. but Madyas in the Philippines is my top pick, Its has almost entirely naval ideas combined with its ideas is practically begging for you to plunder the seven seas.

Yes I like playing Pirates.

I will play in Asia eventually, it looks certainly more entertaining, and i want play with other types of New world continents too, i didn't played too much nations yet, but when i played as Tortuga I feeled disappointed and empty (actually i am playing Inca Empire full playthrough). Just hope this nations will get more entertaining.

 

[Crazymalian]

Playing in Asia with Palembang is very fun, id also recommend the pirate with the biggest mission tree, Gotland. Their mission tree has a lot of flavour, and is set up in a way that allows you to go to the caribbean, plunder the pope, plunder venice, and just generally wreak havoc, and due to your weak army size, it remains very difficult.

 

[Kurfürstin Adelheid]

I like Rügen but I've not really been able to get a game as them off the ground so far.

 

[jonjowett]

War against the world doctrine: You get early Imperialism! This is a big one and helps you "liberate" Islands all over the world. IF you do decide for a land conquest (ugh) then at least you are equipped with the right CB.

My criticism of War against the world is that it requires you take the defender's capital, which is probably not an island and possibly not anywhere near the coast. I would prefer if WatW was more narrowly tailored to take islands/coasts specifically.

Palembang and So can flip to PR very early via event. but Madyas in the Philippines is my top pick, Its has almost entirely naval ideas combined with its ideas is practically begging for you to plunder the seven seas.

Speaking of the Philippines: that Cebu achievement is much easier if you go pirate...

 

[Furleppe]

I didn't play it yet, but by reading dev diaries it seemed like Gotland with Lions of the North DLC would be the best pirate nation with a lot of content, including mission trees, so it might be worth a try.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Pirates can mass expand onto land just fine. You have to be careful with gov cap management, but that's about it.

 

[Pellucid]

Pirate nations are basically a meme. I don't think much time should be spent on them.

 

[Kurfürstin Adelheid]

Pirate nations are basically a meme. I don't think much time should be spent on them.

I mean they're funny but when I play them I start wondering how it would ever actually work in real life for a long period of time, especially when you are not in an isolated position but right next to all the major powers whose coasts you are raiding. The ones that are marches of Morocco sort of make sense as they are being protected by Morocco, but something like Rügen, right next to Denmark and Lübeck, who would have absolutely no desire to see pirates there, and in the HRE, I just don't see how it would 'work'.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

I mean they're funny but when I play them I start wondering how it would ever actually work in real life for a long period of time, especially when you are not in an isolated position but right next to all the major powers whose coasts you are raiding. The ones that are marches of Morocco sort of make sense as they are being protected by Morocco, but something like Rügen, right next to Denmark and Lübeck, who would have absolutely no desire to see pirates there, and in the HRE, I just don't see how it would 'work'.

Yea I get that. Flavour text implies the "republic" is very unstable and decentralised but I find the opposite is true to due to the tolerance of all faiths.

 

[Kurfürstin Adelheid]

Flavour text implies the "republic" is very unstable and decentralised but I find the opposite is true to due to the tolerance of all faiths.

And you get very good bonuses but IRL weren't all these people just sticking around for the plunder? Feels like it should be harder to keep the state functioning to be honest.

 

[Oporto]

I like Rügen but I've not really been able to get a game as them off the ground so far.

Shouldn't Rügen and other possible corsairs automatically kicked out of HRE once they host the black flag? Being a pirate inside HRE makes Rügen alsmost untouchable.

 

[Kurfürstin Adelheid]

Shouldn't Rügen and other possible corsairs automatically kicked out of HRE once they host the black flag? Being a pirate inside HRE makes Rügen alsmost untouchable.

Yes there's no way anyone nearby would have tolerated them.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

Shouldn't Rügen and other possible corsairs automatically kicked out of HRE once they host the black flag? Being a pirate inside HRE makes Rügen alsmost untouchable.

They use the "Hey! it wasn't me" defense. It works everytime.

 

[Oporto]

Yes there's no way anyone nearby would have tolerated them.

Exactly. Pirates are a thorn in the side of everyone nearby of them. Rügen should be booted form HRE but the province itself must remain an imperial land - it gives more challenge to play, while being under constant threat both from the Emperor and everyone on the Baltic Sea.

You wanna play pirates? Fine. But it will be crazy and challenging.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

Exactly. Pirates are a thorn in the side of everyone nearby of them. Rügen should be booted form HRE but the province itself must remain an imperial land - it gives more challenge to play, while being under constant threat both from the Emperor and everyone on the Baltic Sea.

You wanna play pirates? Fine. But it will be crazy and challenging.

Can't have shit in the HRE.

Should just be dismantled.

 

[Oporto]

Can't have shit in the HRE.

Should just be dismantled.

We are more likely to see pirate Rügen as the Emperor instead.

 

[Kurfürstin Adelheid]

We are more likely to see pirate Rügen as the Emperor instead.

Yes, you can make lots of money raiding Denmark, Poland, Sweden, Norway etc. with impunity because they will never attack you as you are in the HRE. Even if you also raid HRE members like Lübeck and the Hanseatic cities, no consequences other than your neighbours not liking you.

 

[Cpt.Cross]

We are more likely to see pirate Rügen as the Emperor instead.

To be fair there are Pirate Candidates for most Major Nations.

Britain has Scotland or Cornwall

France has Britany or Normandy

Scandinavia has Gotland.

Japan has So

Italy has Sardinia or Sicily

Germany has Rügen