Can we adjust nationalist spain?

[pheonicia]

It's just super annoying to have to deal with them every single game since they always (in my games) end up winning the civil war super quickly and joining the axis in 42-43. All I really want is for them to stay out of the war unless the axis controls both Morocco and Egypt (at least the Mediterranean coasts of each).

 

[Duffdrums]

Wait for spain to have a real focus tree and don't worry he won't join the war anymore

But i agree that bring spain into war in axis's side really unbalanced the game for the allie especially in MP game, spain is too OP with is current focus tree

 

[Wasted Shampoo]

Spain, in the historical mode, should stay out of any war after nationalists Spain wins the civil war

 

[Luzineras]

...spain is too OP with is current focus tree

can you plz explain why spain is op?
i never played spain but im curious to try it

 

[AjayAlcos]

This should be put into a detailed focus for the UK. If memory serves me right, Churchill authorized MI6 to pay out anywhere between 10 to 14 million U.S. dollars ($200 million today if adjusted for inflation) in bribes to hawks in the Nationalist government/military to persuade Franco not to enter the war. Whether this alone was the reason Franco became determined to maintain a state of "official" neutrality I find highly doubtful, especially considering Spain had just went through three brutal years of civil war.

Nonetheless I believe there should be a few scripted triggers that might encourage Spain to join the Axis. Say for example that the Axis had taken control of the Suez canal and that London had just fallen to the Nazis in Operation Sealion. Probably then one could foresee Franco overcoming his reluctance and beckoned to join the Axis war effort. This would've lead to Spanish forces occupying Gibraltar (obviously) and possibly have lead to maybe having Hitler forcing Vichy France to transfer control of French Morocco over to Spain. Alot of what if's to be honest.

Spain, in the historical mode, should stay out of any war after nationalists Spain wins the civil war

If only that were true.

 

[Duffdrums]

can you plz explain why spain is op?
i never played spain but im curious to try it

Why spain is OP from my POV ?

of course first you have to win the civil war, its not a easy part since 1.5.cornflakes because AI is a real pain in the a** now

Spain as around 24M manpower, its half of france and italy. Yes but its focus tree give her +7% recruiting ppl, so basicaly you can have a maximum of 32% with the largest conscription law which mean 7.7M soldier. but if you go mass assault or mobile warfare, you go to 37% of you manpower. the first huge superpower of spain is his manpower.

Then comes the tech... spain can unlock fighter 2, light tank 3, medium and heavy tanks lvl 2, heavy battleship 2 cruiser lvl 4 etc... before 39 and can sell the blueprint to germany, italy and japan for free (i saw a greek player in MP just unlocking them and selling them to the majors, he earned more than 20 civilian factories and didn't build any... ), adding to, spain gain x6 bonuses for rocket and Jet... you can drop V3 on washington late 42, even nuclear bomb if you want.

You've got a strategic places, you can take gibraltar from allies, you also take portugal and all its colony, so you can attack allies from south africa, you can put radar on every island in the atlantic and help axis's navy to overcome allies's navy by giving them airfield on thoses island.

its possible to rush synthetics oil and go free trade, german will take you 150 tungsten without doubt.

and of course you go war economy in early game, take france from south and help german prevent a D-Day in West europe...

many other things that i don't talk about like exploit...

here is my POV on spain

 

[Nelfe]

This should be put into a detailed focus for the UK. If memory serves me right, Churchill authorized MI6 to pay out anywhere between 10 to 14 million U.S. dollars ($200 million today if adjusted for inflation) in bribes to hawks in the Nationalist government/military to persuade Franco not to enter the war. Whether this alone was the reason Franco became determined to maintain a state of "official" neutrality I find highly doubtful, especially considering Spain had just went through three brutal years of civil war.

One other reason is that most grain imported by Spain come from the Allies (Germany was barely able to feed it's own population, especially during the war).

 

[Meglok]

In HOI3 the Nationalists wouldn't come in unless the Axis controlled either Gibraltar and Suez, or London iirc. That usually led to the Axis steamrolling them to get to Gibraltar.

The issue probably won't be addressed one way or another until the Med DLC sometime in the future. But if you have a solid idea to fix this post it in the suggestion sub-forum. The devs will read it there.

 

[Torma25]

The reason I'm really mad about this, is that it's so painfully easy to deal with this. Spain joins the axis, only because Germany has an "alliance with Spain" focus. Without that, their post civil war spirit would prevent them from doing so. So just put a god damn restriction on that German focus, so Hitler can only pick it if Spain no longer has the spirit. I'm not into modding, or anything like that, but this is probably like 2 lines of code.

 

[Tob.Ristlin]

Nat. Spain should always join the war against SOV if the allies are beaten though (successful early Barbarossa)

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The worst/most annoying is when nationalist Spain joins Axis...after Germany has already capitulated.

Whatever Franco was, history does not suggest he was interested in abject suicide. Boarding a sinking ship is ahistorical *and* agameplay .

 

[ddiplock]

I would suggest the opposite. In every game I have played as Germany, I've seen the Nationalists get stomped every time! I have now sent volunteers to assist the Nationalists and attaches, but I still don't even think that will be enough!

 

[Chanbara]

Personally speaking I've modded the game since nearly the date it came out to stop Spain joining the Axis because it's so incredibly bizarre, by lengthening the neutrality spirit they get and reducing the AI will take chance of the German focus to 0. I think the best way of dealing with it would just be to add requirements to that focus so that Germany can only take it if an Axis nation owns specific regions around the Mediterranean (Suez, Malta, Gibraltar). I also think it'd be for the best if the neutrality spirit Nationalist Spain gets put them back down to civilian economy without the option to change until it wears off as well because they always become absurdly strong. I haven't actually had to fight them for a long time, but on paper they look stronger than Italy, for a start.

 

[Meglok]

I would suggest the opposite. In every game I have played as Germany, I've seen the Nationalists get stomped every time! I have now sent volunteers to assist the Nationalists and attaches, but I still don't even think that will be enough!

Kind of a separate issue from the OP, but there was a manpower bug causing revolting nations in a civil war to start with 0 manpower. 1.5.1 fixed it. You still should be sending land and air vols and LLing some fighters, TAC, and some guns (25%?) to the Nationalists as Germany to make sure Franco wins. That ensures Nat Spain is available for your side later, plus feeds you valuable land and air xp. Sending the attache is expensive in PP and with the MEFO rolling PP expense Germany actually has to budget PP now.

Unless you WANT to capture Spain when you go to war with Russia to get to Gibraltar.

 

[ddiplock]

Kind of a separate issue from the OP, but there was a manpower bug causing revolting nations in a civil war to start with 0 manpower. 1.5.1 fixed it. You still should be sending land and air vols and LLing some fighters, TAC, and some guns (25%?) to the Nationalists as Germany to make sure Franco wins. That ensures Nat Spain is available for your side later, plus feeds you valuable land and air xp. Sending the attache is expensive in PP and with the MEFO rolling PP expense Germany actually has to budget PP now.

Unless you WANT to capture Spain when you go to war with Russia to get to Gibraltar.

Sending attache is expensive, but in my last playthrough I netted 217 experience by the time the war civil war was over! It was a huge advantage for me, well worth the PP cost! PLUS, I'm running Road to 56, which doesn't include MEFO yet!

 

[Belryuminus]

I would suggest the opposite. In every game I have played as Germany, I've seen the Nationalists get stomped every time! I have now sent volunteers to assist the Nationalists and attaches, but I still don't even think that will be enough!

Does that not sound very strange to all of you that on every single topic about Spanish civil war, we ALWAYS have people whos face 90% win for Nationalists and other people faces 90% for the Republican ?

There HAS to be something behind that, explaining why we lack people coming on the posts to say "Meh, ok, i understand but i do have 50 / 50 ratio in my own games".

 

[Meglok]

Does that not sound very strange to all of you that on every single topic about Spanish civil war, we ALWAYS have people whos face 90% win for Nationalists and other people faces 90% for the Republican ?

There HAS to be something behind that, explaining why we lack people coming on the posts to say "Meh, ok, i understand but i do have 50 / 50 ratio in my own games".

In ddplock's case he neglected to mention he was playing a mod. That can make a difference in outcomes. I was referring to vanilla.

 

[blusarge27]

I've seen about a 1/3 split in favour of the Nationalists. However, if the Republicans win they invariably join the Comintern, and get stomped. Just happened in my current UK game. Germany attacks the Soviets (in June 1940, obviously ), Spain joins the Comintern, gets stomped. With the added fun factor that I have to now defend Gibraltar tooth and nail against Germany.

Really hope Paradox can stop both Spains joining the war, unless certain requirements (like some mentioned in this thread) are met.