Can this terrible UI design be next on the chopping block?

[durbal]

I love having everything I might need to see hidden unless I click a button. Then those things require me to click more buttons to see what has 'Low Market Access' or 'High Tensions'.

It's a good thing we aren't using the flag notifications a la EU4 because I really wouldn't want notifications blocking my view of this:

I am so glad I get to see whatever this is.

 

[Olaf Trygvasson]

Oh I agree so much. Maybe I am biased because I spent so much time on them, but the EU4 and CK2 notification systems are the best that PDX has ever made. Especially CK2, since it takes what Vic3 is trying to do, but does it better- instead of Vic3 windows that appear on the bottom right to constantly hide your generals when you're trying to click them, it has that window top right displaying notifications that you can page through/dismiss without blocking anything. Instead of a glowing button top and center with a pull down menu that blocks your entire screen, it has those beautiful notification icons

 

[Olaf Trygvasson]

This and flag occupation need to go

 

[Ir0nSlug]

Oh I agree so much. Maybe I am biased because I spent so much time on them, but the EU4 and CK2 notification systems are the best that PDX has ever made. Especially CK2, since it takes what Vic3 is trying to do, but does it better- instead of Vic3 windows that appear on the bottom right to constantly hide your generals when you're trying to click them, it has that window top right displaying notifications that you can page through/dismiss without blocking anything. Instead of a glowing button top and center with a pull down menu that blocks your entire screen, it has those beautiful notification icons

I agree, I'm mainly a Stellaris player and it uses the same notifications system than CK2, and it's very efficient.

 

[Topias]

Agreed. Unfortunately, the devs seem to be very convinced of the merits of the suggestions tab. It's one of the wrong lessons they picked up from CK3. I seem to recall Paul in particular championing the feature.

 

[Bearjuden]

Agreed. Unfortunately, the devs seem to be very convinced of the merits of the suggestions tab. It's one of the wrong lessons they picked up from CK3. I seem to recall Paul in particular championing the feature.

They also seem convinced of flag occupation, but when the community overwhelmingly said "we don't like this", they...okay, admittedly they first said "no just get used to it" but then we did two more patches on it and still didn't like it so they indicated they would look at a different solution. The same thing happened with the trade calculations, where the community kept making noise about the issue and eventually they changed it. So it might take a while but if the community genuinely disapproves of something, they do fix it, regardless of what they personally prefer.

So the fact that they dig their heels in doesn't, to me, automatically mean they won't change it if people keep pointing out that it's dysfunctional and disliked.

 

[TrainMachine]

Oh yeah. The button. The check engine light. Lights up almost literally every tick, frequently for something that doesn't matter, and sometimes for stuff that needs immediate attention.

Wasn't that much of a problem in CK3 because I got tired of CK3 pretty quickly.

I completely forgot how much I hated this feature because 1.1 was too broken to play and because I haven't been beta testing 1.2

I need to remember this stuff next time I might get excited about a new Paradox game.

 

[hagerhink]

It is definitely not on the chopping block, as it does deliver on some of the design goals we set out to achieve with it.

That being said, there are definitely things that can be improved with the Current Situation panel and Alerts in general. For 1.2 we are doing a pass on Notifications, where we are improving the content of the Notifications, their frequency, and have added Message Settings. I would very much like to do a similar UX pass on the Current Sitations panel and Alerts in one of our future updates after 1.2.

 

[thedarkendstar]

It is definitely not on the chopping block, as it does deliver on some of the design goals we set out to achieve with it.

That being said, there are definitely things that can be improved with the Current Situation panel and Alerts in general. For 1.2 we are doing a pass on Notifications, where we are improving the content of the Notifications, their frequency, and have added Message Settings. I would very much like to do a similar UX pass on the Current Sitations panel and Alerts in one of our future updates after 1.2.

That's definitely a metric you could use but to be frank if what goals you had in mind are worse then other systems then it doesn't matter if it achieved those goals.

Now im sure plenty of people like the current idea of it im not suggesting the majority absolutely want to get rid (its entirely possible the majority like the idea) it just that I feel like weather it accomplished some internal paradox goals seems less important than if the players like it or not and if they feel it works.

One could have a goal to release a game that crashes peoples PC but I don't think the players would see that as a success.

 

[EwaldvonKleist]

It is definitely not on the chopping block, as it does deliver on some of the design goals we set out to achieve with it.

That being said, there are definitely things that can be improved with the Current Situation panel and Alerts in general. For 1.2 we are doing a pass on Notifications, where we are improving the content of the Notifications, their frequency, and have added Message Settings. I would very much like to do a similar UX pass on the Current Sitations panel and Alerts in one of our future updates after 1.2.

With all respect, the current solution is not good:
1) The message about what is wrong is hidden behind an extra click.
2) If you want to fix the problem (e.g. build more rails in a state without enough infrastructure) there is no one-click-sokution to solve the problem by adding rails, but you need several clicks.

 

[yenot]

it does deliver on some of the design goals we set out to achieve with it

Don't want to sound annoying or something but would you mind elaborating on the design goals that it helps deliver a bit? I geniuinely tried and could not formulate a single guess.

Or maybe it was discussed already? Because the only time it was brought up that I remember is when Wiz said something along the lines of "CK3 did it and was successful so we went along". And that one time he expressly stated it does not work exactly right in Vic3:

All of this makes it a lot harder to use the current situations button in the way it was designed and intended. We don't have an immediate solution here, but it's certainly something we're aware of and discussing how to improve.

(Which does directly not contradict what you said or mean anyone was planning to abandon the situation button ofc)

 

[Askorti]

It is definitely not on the chopping block, as it does deliver on some of the design goals we set out to achieve with it.

Would you mind elaborating on what those design goals are?

Because if I'm to be honest, it certainly does not deliver on the expectation of having quick and easy access to important situations in my country.

 

[Kyoumen]

They also seem convinced of flag occupation, but when the community overwhelmingly said "we don't like this", they...okay, admittedly they first said "no just get used to it" but then we did two more patches on it and still didn't like it so they indicated they would look at a different solution.

That is very literally not what was said, implied or indicated.

I get a good laugh every time people on this forum complain vociferously that devs have gone silent about things. Can't imagine why they don't discuss everything they're doing and why with us.

 

[Askorti]

That is very literally not what was said, implied or indicated.

I get a good laugh every time people on this forum complain vociferously that devs have gone silent about things. Can't imagine why they don't discuss everything they're doing and why with us.

How so?

When everybody and their mom complained about flag occupation before release, devs literally told us to first give it a chance, because in their experience some things that the community complains about at first, stop being an issue later when the game actually releases.
In response the community waited for the release, and to drive the point home, repeatedly reminded the devs that we still dont like the flag occupation after playing with it, at which point the devs agreed to look into it.

 

[Kyoumen]

How so?

When everybody and their mom complained about flag occupation before release, devs literally told us to first give it a chance, because in their experience some things that the community complains about at first, stop being an issue later when the game actually releases.

Indeed.

Which is decidedly not "no just get used to it": a needlessly aggrieved, bad faith and bluntly just dishonest description of what was actually said.

 

[Froonk]

It is definitely not on the chopping block, as it does deliver on some of the design goals we set out to achieve with it.

That being said, there are definitely things that can be improved with the Current Situation panel and Alerts in general. For 1.2 we are doing a pass on Notifications, where we are improving the content of the Notifications, their frequency, and have added Message Settings. I would very much like to do a similar UX pass on the Current Sitations panel and Alerts in one of our future updates after 1.2.

I think it needs to be split into three priorities at the very least instead of putting everything in there under a long list of categories. There are plenty of notifications in there that you only need to check very rarely which obscures things that are either immediate concern or at the very least require the player to be informed. Currently the constant existence of an exclamation mark there just trains the player to ignore it.

 

[TripleAgent]

Is obscuring and doubling the amount of clicks to access/address important issues instead of using the existing empty space a design goal?? What design goals are worth it that require that?

 

[Lord Lambert]

PDX UI notifications were perfected in EU4. This silly little widget thing is just a flat downgrade in every regard.

 

[Oglesby]

It is definitely not on the chopping block, as it does deliver on some of the design goals we set out to achieve with it.

I would also like to join the other forumites to ask if paradox can talk more as to what these designs goals were and how the current situation panel achieves it.

I feel it buries information into texts lists that are harder to just scan that alert bubbles. The information that is possible to enter this list is so vast that it seems to be getting updates constantly either making the player constantly check it to get rid of the ! or just ignore it.

I like how some things were moved to alerts in the beta (unused construction, shortages) but the original item is still left in 'current situation' panel and the alert tooltip doesn't provide the full information (shortage alert only shows information for the first item that is in shortage is there is multiple, construction alert only shows if none is used and not if partially unused).

I didn't like the current situation panel in CK3 and don't like it here (even after playing with it in both so it is not a 'theoretical dislike').

I still believe that Count Cristo explained it best back one year ago in this video. I feel out of all the games I played EU4 had the better alert ui system.

 

[Olaf Trygvasson]

It is definitely not on the chopping block, as it does deliver on some of the design goals we set out to achieve with it.

What does it do that the notification flags did not do better, more easily, and more efficiently? The notification flags, especially once you've gotten used to them, tell you what is going on at just a glance. When I am playing EU4 and I see a red flag pop up, something is bad, and when I see that infamous crossed pitchfork and flag, I know I am about to have a rebellion. When it is yellow, there is just unrest. There are so many other icons that I know at a glance, without even needing to page over them, and they take up a tiny amount of the screen while conveying a lot of information very efficiently. What I don't see is a number that is glowing where I need to click on it (usually pausing while I do this ordeal, since it can take a while sometimes and also covers the middle of my screen), sometimes need to scroll up and down to find the notification, sometimes needing to open up a folding menu of more notifications, and then page over the notification to clear it. Sometimes it is useful, but oftentimes it isn't. Why do I care that by level 30 trade route is unproductive? It will downsize slightly and become productive again pretty quickly. Or if a trade good is bouncing between causing a shortage or not, causing a new notification every week of game time that I need to go and check. There are so many notifications for things I don't need to know or care about, hidden between things I really do care about. I have to check, to make sure the notification is pointless and not important, but I certainly can't just leave it open because it takes up the middle of the darned screen. Absurdly inconvenient.

What are the advantages of this system, over say the classic notification system of EU4, CK2, Stellaris, etc.?