I'm interested especially during peace time/stability.
Is there a limit for "power relative to liege" for them to declare war or something?
Is there a limit for "power relative to liege" for them to declare war or something?
Can the AI break vassalization?
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I've never seen it, but then I've rarely seen vassals that are stronger than the liege (including all his other vassals). The way to test it would be to set it up so e.g. France is a vassal of Navarra and see what happens.
Does this answer your question?
Or do you mean the dominant breaking the vassalization?
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Never happened to me. I think the option is just there in case anybody wants to play a vassal start.
For example Wallachia, a 2 province country controlled by me has Serbia, 4 province country as a vassal. To save money I take away the funding for the army after a war and my 7k army is left at 1k.
If I keep it up for 20 years, will my own vassal DOW me?
From what I see in wetblowdryer's pic, it's possible.
If I keep it up for 20 years, will my own vassal DOW me?
From what I see in wetblowdryer's pic, it's possible.
That pic is of nationalist rebels declaring a war of independence due to rebels achieving their demands. The same thing can happen to Portugal with Ceuta creating Fezian nationalists. That's not a vassal declaring war on the overlord. That never, ever happens. There is no limit to how big your vassal can get and they will never do anything about it. You won't be able to ever integrate a vassal who has grown larger than you, though.
I think you can do it if he has the same culture groups as you. See my example: Wallachia annexing Serbia.
You can't integrate a PU that's larger then you, you can annex a larger vassal just fine, you'll just get a penalty to the speed, which can easily be overcome with some dip-rep.
Theoretically yes (there is the option) but practically no (at least I never saw one).
If you're a vassal and declares war on the overlord, you get -5 stability hit. This is pretty massive, and the AIs are usually very reluctant to do any war that may destabilize them.
I do think that the vassals should declare independence if they are sufficiently large and especially if the overlord is depleted in resources, but even as a human, fighting for the independence as a vassal requires saving up for years, hiring a whole bunch of mercs at once and going for it, since the independence war will leave only the vassal on one side (since the vassal can't make any alliances) against the overlord with other vassals and allies. As long as the AI isn't malfunctioning, the vassal AI would probably think it's not worth it.
Personally, I'd like to see more empowered vassals. Demanding the overlord to declare war on an enemy where the vassal has Reconquest CB, for example, or an expanded diplomacy options for the vassals like entering a pact with another independent power. For the AIs, the vassals are there only to be annexed, and when the AIs do get vassals they tend to be much smaller against the overlord (I mean, much) so that it's probably not strange if they happily allow them to be annexed. The problem is with the multiple, large vassals that a human player may own, but then... doing that's not exactly an exploit, if the devs confirmed that it was an intended method for the human players to expand with.
If you're a vassal and declares war on the overlord, you get -5 stability hit. This is pretty massive, and the AIs are usually very reluctant to do any war that may destabilize them.
I do think that the vassals should declare independence if they are sufficiently large and especially if the overlord is depleted in resources, but even as a human, fighting for the independence as a vassal requires saving up for years, hiring a whole bunch of mercs at once and going for it, since the independence war will leave only the vassal on one side (since the vassal can't make any alliances) against the overlord with other vassals and allies. As long as the AI isn't malfunctioning, the vassal AI would probably think it's not worth it.
Personally, I'd like to see more empowered vassals. Demanding the overlord to declare war on an enemy where the vassal has Reconquest CB, for example, or an expanded diplomacy options for the vassals like entering a pact with another independent power. For the AIs, the vassals are there only to be annexed, and when the AIs do get vassals they tend to be much smaller against the overlord (I mean, much) so that it's probably not strange if they happily allow them to be annexed. The problem is with the multiple, large vassals that a human player may own, but then... doing that's not exactly an exploit, if the devs confirmed that it was an intended method for the human players to expand with.
To prevent overextension as Wallachia I was planning to vassalize Serbia and feed them Bosnian provinces while making just 1-province Bosnia my vassal.
Basically blitzkrieg: ally Bosnia - DOW Serbia - destroy their troops ASAP - break alliance - DOW Bosnia - vassalize both at almost the same time. Serbia first, then Bosnia.
Plus I'd save a ton on coring - and I really, really need every ADM point I get (same for MIL).
If I could have a 7 province vassal as a 3 province overlord with -3 stability but with strong allies, I'd definitely do it!
Basically blitzkrieg: ally Bosnia - DOW Serbia - destroy their troops ASAP - break alliance - DOW Bosnia - vassalize both at almost the same time. Serbia first, then Bosnia.
Plus I'd save a ton on coring - and I really, really need every ADM point I get (same for MIL).
If I could have a 7 province vassal as a 3 province overlord with -3 stability but with strong allies, I'd definitely do it!