Oh, very nice! Typical of my life actually - you spend half the party working on a prospect, leave the room for 5 minutes, and when you get back she can't even remember your name.
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Oh, very nice! Typical of my life actually - you spend half the party working on a prospect, leave the room for 5 minutes, and when you get back she can't even remember your name.
Nah, but by all means sign me up. To quote Rizzo, "They can kill you, but they can't eat you." Well here they can't even kill you. Humiliate you maybe but that's nothing new for me - see preceding post.
I'm confused re the sequence of events; GER invasion of CAN & capture of its capital before GER DOW USA? or direct GER invasion of USA? Doesn't GER capture of CAN & USA capitals result in supplies & resources being instantly teleported to Berlin, hence supplies not available in Nth America for GER troops to use?
It was a one sided game, SOV & USA vs GER, so in that respect, the GER player needed an exploit to win. But Mr_B0narpte, if I was in your MP game, I would not have done an early exploiting USA invasion as GER, I would prefer to play historical games at least initially. USA is too weak prior to its gearing up events, so a early invasion is somewhat unfair. By April 1940, the USA might only have just had Gearing Up 1 (after Vichy trigger). Lord Jarski can you advise how many gearing up events you have had. Slow JAP AI in China means less USA gearing up. In SP and much slower pace, USA can get all four Gearing Up events but usually Japan's DOW comes after Gearing Up 3. Question: Does the USA miss out on the benefits of the gearing up events that don't trigger prior to receiving a DOW? It probably gets the peacetime IC modifiers, but might miss out on extra manpower, and also misses out on extra IC in Chicago? I havent studied it closely enough to work this out. Presumably GER started with Poland Sept 39, so very fast progress to get POL, FRA, Suez by late March 40. (Im not a very good GER player). Suez taken by AI ITA ally?
Perhaps the USA gearing up events need to fire off as soon as ENG loses Bermuda, POR loses Azores, or CAN or MEX lose any territory? Which landing site was within 3000 km of GER controlled territory?
Lord Jarski, how many land divs did you have & where were they located at the time of the GER DOW on you?
It was a one sided game, SOV & USA vs GER, so in that respect, the GER player needed an exploit to win. But Mr_B0narpte, if I was in your MP game, I would not have done an early exploiting USA invasion as GER, I would prefer to play historical games at least initially. USA is too weak prior to its gearing up events, so a early invasion is somewhat unfair. By April 1940, the USA might only have just had Gearing Up 1 (after Vichy trigger). Lord Jarski can you advise how many gearing up events you have had. Slow JAP AI in China means less USA gearing up. In SP and much slower pace, USA can get all four Gearing Up events but usually Japan's DOW comes after Gearing Up 3. Question: Does the USA miss out on the benefits of the gearing up events that don't trigger prior to receiving a DOW? It probably gets the peacetime IC modifiers, but might miss out on extra manpower, and also misses out on extra IC in Chicago? I havent studied it closely enough to work this out. Presumably GER started with Poland Sept 39, so very fast progress to get POL, FRA, Suez by late March 40. (Im not a very good GER player). Suez taken by AI ITA ally?
Perhaps the USA gearing up events need to fire off as soon as ENG loses Bermuda, POR loses Azores, or CAN or MEX lose any territory? Which landing site was within 3000 km of GER controlled territory?
Lord Jarski, how many land divs did you have & where were they located at the time of the GER DOW on you?
"No". Supplies and resources do not magically teleport across oceans. It needs convoys to move them. All supplies and oil captured in N. America stay there (plus new ones being generated by the captured rovinces) directly useable by the forces there.
While I personally like Pang's use of the term "teleporting supplies" it needs to be considered with AoD game mechanics. It is more a reference to how instantly at midnight each day all resources in a continental region flow into the capital and all needed supplies instantly flow from capital to divisions.
But when it comes to an overseas area, the teleporting happening there is limited to the supply point overseas, the divisions there and the overseas resources moving to the supply depot each midnight while supplies move other way (all within the overseas region only).
If the German player manages to annex USA Mr_BOnarpte's SU might not be so confident regarding the future. But seems to me that the German player faces a huge risk next trying to get his many divisions back to Europe as long as there is a strong USN. He would need to amphib Pearl Harbor, Midway, Wake and Guam to annex USA and so eliminate the USN. It seems he has a lot of time and perhaps - with the USA capital moved to one of those Pacific Islands, the USA will run out of oil so bettering the chances of the Kriegsmarine surviving.
But he still faces the RN (and I believe it was said Germany does not have a strong navy). Further, I doubt German player has 100 transports. That would have required 3-4 lines of TP from start. If Lord Jarski is smart with his navy, and Mr_BOnarpte gives needed free oil, those 200 alleged Wehrmacht divisions in North America might meet their grave there - or be buried at sea if they wish.
On the other hand, is it possible to set up a very long naval retreat from wherever caught in the Atlantic Ocean that would see German player's loaded transports reach the safety of Brest or Gibraltar? The AI seems to do this to some extent across several sea zones, so maybe human can also select a very long retreat to get across the Atlantic without further risk of being sunk.
But who is this German mystery player?
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Or worse, when one gets back a few minutes later she's left with that other guy! Sorry, I did not mean to touch on any real life sensitivities. I just got confused trying to guess "Who's who?" in this game.
Thanks Commander. I should have known that, guess I've never stopped and looked at the supply dump quantities immediately before & after taking an overseas capital.
They may be playing Lord Jarski's mod; might have modified Gearing Up events. Perhaps to stop this exploit, the USA player needs the choice of 60 or 120 instant Milita units (just pay manpower & some resources) to be deployed anywhere, if a continental USA invasion starts before & up until no later than either 12 months after Gearing Up 1, or 8 months after Gearing Up 2, or 4 months after Gearing Up 3. This would be a way to compensate for AoD making USA very weak at the start of the game.
They are teleported instantly over the ocean. Capital stockpiles are an exception. Any stockpile cannot increase beyond 10000. Capital stockpile can.
And if one releases the quebec puppet one can trade 5000 supplies and 5000 oil every 7 days to them.
Actually even the peacetime modifier will not change unless the events will fire. So as soon as USA is at peace again the peactime modifier will be applied again.
I just included Bermuda. Imo the Azores are too near to Europa for a direct approach.
Just to be precise: Supplies are teleported from depot to unit at a steady rate known as units ESE. This happens each hour.
Peace treaty can teleport units over the ocean. It is similar to the annoying teleport at bitter Peace.
So many questions to answer... 
To MagooNZ:
I had a hunch that the German player might attempt an early landing, so I asked Bobos USSR to simultaniously attack Baltics, Persia and Afganistan after Danzig fired. That together with Winter War gave USSR enough belligerence to trigger all the gearings. And after Portugal joined Axis, even the last gearing event became valid. However, I believe I missed out on two of the gearing events due to the early German invasion. Yes we are playing my Improved 1936 scenario, the gearing events are the same as in vanilla game. Think they should be modded, at least they should be able to fire if USA is under attack or with Bermuda taken. A "mobilization" event of militia may be a good idea too.
Germany took Bermuda, so he couldve landed pretty much anywhere on the coast, but the chosen province was right next to the USA border, presumably to strike at my new naval base in Portland that I built to be able to reach Labrador and Newfoundland with the old model 1 ships with lousy range.
I had militia divisions guarding every single beach province, 3 motorized divisions, and roughly 9 marine divisions deployed near Canadian border. Was building more since the first gearings but the massive retooling time due to that damn John Nance Garner, together with the delaying of the last gearings made me unable to spam more troops in time. Had also built naval brigades to all my ships, ASW for destroyers, radars for capital ships and so on.
To Commander666:
Germany had 104 TPs in fact, perhaps even more in Europe since he is fighting in Scandinavia. His navy is not anything to be worried about, but he did tech naval bombers and most likely has a strong wing of them to back up any naval operations. 200 divisions is most likely an overstatement, his original force was at most that 104 divisions which he dropped off to the Canadian province bordering USA, dont know if he managed to transport in more. His force consisted of mot-sparts together with apparantely vanilla infantry support.
To Pang Bingxun:
Adding Bermuda trigger to the rest of the gearing events is a very good addition, he did conquer it and then had a possibility land pretty much anywhere.
Perhaps also add in a triggers which allows the Gearing events to fire if USA is under attack by Germany, Italy or Japan? That could allow for the USA-Italy NAP to be removed aswell, I got a 5% dissent hit for joining the Allies after German invasion because I had to "break" the NAP with Italy.
To MagooNZ:
I had a hunch that the German player might attempt an early landing, so I asked Bobos USSR to simultaniously attack Baltics, Persia and Afganistan after Danzig fired. That together with Winter War gave USSR enough belligerence to trigger all the gearings. And after Portugal joined Axis, even the last gearing event became valid. However, I believe I missed out on two of the gearing events due to the early German invasion. Yes we are playing my Improved 1936 scenario, the gearing events are the same as in vanilla game. Think they should be modded, at least they should be able to fire if USA is under attack or with Bermuda taken. A "mobilization" event of militia may be a good idea too.
Germany took Bermuda, so he couldve landed pretty much anywhere on the coast, but the chosen province was right next to the USA border, presumably to strike at my new naval base in Portland that I built to be able to reach Labrador and Newfoundland with the old model 1 ships with lousy range.
I had militia divisions guarding every single beach province, 3 motorized divisions, and roughly 9 marine divisions deployed near Canadian border. Was building more since the first gearings but the massive retooling time due to that damn John Nance Garner, together with the delaying of the last gearings made me unable to spam more troops in time. Had also built naval brigades to all my ships, ASW for destroyers, radars for capital ships and so on.
To Commander666:
Germany had 104 TPs in fact, perhaps even more in Europe since he is fighting in Scandinavia. His navy is not anything to be worried about, but he did tech naval bombers and most likely has a strong wing of them to back up any naval operations. 200 divisions is most likely an overstatement, his original force was at most that 104 divisions which he dropped off to the Canadian province bordering USA, dont know if he managed to transport in more. His force consisted of mot-sparts together with apparantely vanilla infantry support.
To Pang Bingxun:
Adding Bermuda trigger to the rest of the gearing events is a very good addition, he did conquer it and then had a possibility land pretty much anywhere.
Perhaps also add in a triggers which allows the Gearing events to fire if USA is under attack by Germany, Italy or Japan? That could allow for the USA-Italy NAP to be removed aswell, I got a 5% dissent hit for joining the Allies after German invasion because I had to "break" the NAP with Italy.
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If germany converts only 50 of those transports flottilas to convoy he has 500 cnvoys to supply USA. That would clearly suffice.
Since militia has no retooling USA might build them early. I am a bit sceptical about militia via event. I mean they are already that very cheap. Militia event might be plausible for AI because AI is very poor at adapting the production queue. But human player should do better, shouldn't he?
Breaking NAP via event gives +5% dissent aswell. And imo that is right so. NAP should not be broken without high costs.
Since militia has no retooling USA might build them early. I am a bit sceptical about militia via event. I mean they are already that very cheap. Militia event might be plausible for AI because AI is very poor at adapting the production queue. But human player should do better, shouldn't he?
Breaking NAP via event gives +5% dissent aswell. And imo that is right so. NAP should not be broken without high costs.
Yeah suppose itd only make sense for the AI. Militia is darned cheap agreed, but rather poor in combat too. I was going to start spamming more militia with the next gearings but they never fired in time, and even so I doubt what they couldve done against mot-sparts and 39'infantry with german doctrines. It may be just enough to add some triggers to the gearing events, they give interventionism and more importantly hawk lobby clicks that speeden up the unit productions quite nicely, which may turn out to be more important than having some militia pop up event.
Of course, in that situation it seemed rather pointless though. In the face of a massive German invasion, I dont think the people of USA wouldve cared that much about breaking a pact with Italy who has helped Germany to get to the situation where it was able to do the invasion. Did USA and Italy even have a NAP historically?
BTW!
I just realized that its incredibly much more efficient to build transports than convoys if you need convoys.
Costs with full free market and hawk lobby:
TP = 1 MP, 2.7 IC for 49 days
Convoy = 1 MP, 2 IC for 54 days
Oh and convoy build nets you 5 convoys, converting a TP gives you 10 convoys!
Should it be like that really? :S
Without free market the difference is smaller apart from manpower. You get 10 convoys for 1 MP with TPs, and 5 convoys for 1 MP with Convoys nontheless.
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No, but there was a very substantial Italian-American population that might not have been best pleased with aggressive moves against their heritage homeland.
With that logic, USA should have a NAP with Germany too, perhaps Ireland aswell but no, currently Italy is only European Power USA has a NAP with.
If the German-Americans did not protest to USA joining the allies to defend Canada and itself, I dont see why the Italo-Americans should.
Not only is it a huge savings of IC and MP, the transports do double function. Build 48 as an example. Transport 4 stacks for an invasion. Convert 24 to instantly give you 240 convoys to supply that invasion. Given that many of your divsions will stay behind for guard duties, the remaining 24 TPs is about right to bring home the invasion.
No idea why anybody ever builds "convoys". That's an AI thing.
I agree. If not a formal NAP, I'd argue that there should at least be heavy dissent hits attending a US DoW on either of those nations. Historically there's genuine reason to believe that if Hitler had not declared war on the US after Pearl Harbour, Roosevelt would have found it very difficult to get a DoW on Germany through Congress.
I haven't been following the game closely, but isn't there an important difference here? I've gained the impression that Germany declared war on the US but Italy did not - if that's correct it's not a distinction that would be lost on the populace.
Yah, I just checked what happened when my UK took Berlin. The resources instantly went to London. How rediculous! You may as well just throw away the complete AoD convoy system and just teleport everything if this will be the caliber of game mechanics. Everything that was in Berlin when I captured it should have gone to the UK's supply depot it formed when it amphibed Germany, and it is the UK's convoy problem how to transport that. Or do trucks magically swim?
I was wrong to tack on supplies to my statement. Only resources "teleport" at midnight to capital. However then your use of the word "teleport" for supplies moving to units is quite wrong too. "at a steady rate" and "This happens each hour" ain't no teleport but sure sounds like a bunch of trucks trudging down a highway. "Just to be precise."
Have fun searching those trucks. Of course it is meant to symbolize trains and trucks. But the supplies are beamed from depot to stockpile. There are no trucks moving, ESE does move. But then again this is just game mechanics.
You're welcome but seems I was wrong what I said happens when enemy overseas capital is captured. In that case AoD decides it is more fun to teleport! What a game!
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"Beamed", "teleported" ... all rather most silly for a WW2 Grand Strategy game that saw DEVs work years to improve the logistical system. The game mechanics work fine. The game terms and representation of those mechanics is the problem here.
What do you mean no trucks? What's the trucks shown in losses chart? It's the trains I can't find! :rofl:
Germany did not declare war on USA, just invaded Canada en masse, USA joined Allies the very day german soldiers stepped on American soil.
Do you think the Italo-Americans and German-Americans would have still been extremely anti-war with a German Army with clear intent of invading the USA landing in Canada, right next to USA border. Im sure many of the immigrants had fond feelings towards their original country, but I would expect not many of them were seeing the Nazis and fascists as a especially good thing to have around, in Europe, let alone right next door to USA.
Not the German-Americans, no - at least not to the same degree as they were historically. They would presumably have perceived an immediate potential threat and while the hardcore Bundists might well have continued their opposition they would have been unlikely to create more than a blip of dissent. But I think the Italian-Americans might have been a different kettle of fish. Italy wasn't landing troops on America's doorstep, it wasn't 'intruding' into the Western Hemisphere in violation of the Munroe doctrine, and in fact it was taking no aggressive action against the US at all. Why then would they suddenly abandon their attempts to keep the peace between their old and new homes?
On this side issue, you might be surprised to find just how many did think fascism was a very good thing to have around.
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