Can i surrender/negotiate peace? (sorry if asked recently)

[Lifthrasil]

They actually managed to bring down way more Allied soldiers than the Allied ones could bring down of German. F*** the Allies, damn Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin straight to hell.

wow what an achievement... It must have been a real consolation for the German families, who lost fathers and children, that families on the other side of the border lost loved ones as well. Instead of just making peace when you see you lost, and minimize the losses, the nazi regime just carried the war on, because they knew that they would pay for it in the end anyway. There was no chance that the nazi leaders would have walked home freely with a peace deal made after 1941.

 

[AapoAlas]

While I think that it is quite historical that the AI will not essentially even think about negotiating for peace I am a little saddened by the fact that this will likely end up with a Finland in the same situation as in HOI3, namely that the Winter War cannot be won or even not lost in any way except for taking over the whole of Soviet Union, which is of course impossible.

I can imagine that a very well prepared, offensive Finland (which is of course quite unhistorical, I admit) could reasonably "win" the Winter War against the AI and take over the Kola peninsula, maybe even St Petersburg if the AI mucks up, and finally fortify down on a line from St Petersburg to the White Sea. In HOI3 this was quite doable and only ever actually helped the Soviet Union: Full on War Economy from 1939 made the Purge and the military and industrial buildup non-issues and made sure that Barbarossa would not get more than a couple of provinces inwards. Luckily in HOI3 this seems a little less likely as the high-end war laws require an opponent with more than 50 factories, we're told.

Still one might think, if Finland had managed to take over the Kola peninsula and fortify itself on a line that the Red Army could not breach, would the Soviets have kept trying to push through and enforce their demands on Finland? Or would they have suffered such a humiliation that they would've hoped to quietly get rid of the war, either by going back to Status Quo or by offering some limited concessions?

We cannot know as the idea is quite ridiculous in the real world but in the game I do hope that the AI won't just keep saying: "No no, we're obviously going to win this war."

 

[johan-erik]

There were occasions when Stalin entertained the idea of a separate peace with Hitler, or at least hinting it to Churchill. Whether he was serious or just threatened Churchill for more lend lease, post-war political gains or demands for a second front is hard to tell. Between 1939-1942, things were still somewhat uncertain, but when both Hitler and Tojo were on the losing streak after Guadalcanal, Stalingrad and El Alamein, it became more realistic for the Allies and the USSR to demand unconditional surrender.

 

[AapoAlas]

There were occasions when Stalin entertained the idea of a separate peace with Hitler, or at least hinting it to Churchill. Whether he was serious or just threatened Churchill for more lend lease, post-war political gains or demands for a second front is hard to tell. Between 1939-1942, things were still somewhat uncertain, but when both Hitler and Tojo were on the losing streak after Guadalcanal, Stalingrad and El Alamein, it became more realistic for the Allies and the USSR to demand unconditional surrender.

I believe A Bitter Peace will again be present as a possible event for the Soviets.

 

[FOARP]

One of the systems I don't like.
Winners can't sue for peace? Why not. Surely some enemies will end up preferring to give up territory than be totally conquered.
Surely sometimes it makes sense that after long enough two sides at a standstill will be okay with a negotiated white peace or something pretty close to it.

The reason WW2 wars went on so long was because those losing would not accept peace, not because the winners wouldn't. If you think the Allies wouldn't have accepted peace wayyyyy before getting to Berlin, you don't know your history. Its the Germans who, while losing, were not open to peace.

A little something called "Unconditional Surrender" says otherwise. After the 1943 Casablanca conference, the only way the war in Europe and the far east were going to end was with the occupation of Japan and Germany. Italy, Romania, Hungary, Finland, Thailand, Bulgaria only managed to escape this by switching sides - an option not open to Germany and Japan.

 

[canthinkofaname415]

You think the allies were going to negotiate with hitler? Gimme a break.

Yeah I already covered it, some people act surprised that Hitler didn't surrender by why surrender? The Allies started the war, with each year more and more countries piled on the Allies bandwagon, and come February 1943 they were demanding unconditional surrender, this after the Axis offered peace over and over again.

Its obvious this was a war over ideology, the Allies would never accept Fascism existing as an organized force unless their populations were literally rioting in the streets over it saying "no more war" because of something like 2 failed invasions of France or Moscow falling or something.

Remember, from the time the National Socialists took over in 1933 they all had their gun sights on them.

 

[canthinkofaname415]

wow what an achievement... It must have been a real consolation for the German families, who lost fathers and children, that families on the other side of the border lost loved ones as well. Instead of just making peace when you see you lost, and minimize the losses, the nazi regime just carried the war on, because they knew that they would pay for it in the end anyway. There was no chance that the nazi leaders would have walked home freely with a peace deal made after 1941.

The Allies wanted the Morgenthau plan, the destruction of Germany itself. There was literally 0 incentive to surrender. And the civilians fully supported Hitler to the very end, people waved at the soldiers even as the Soviets were nearing Berlin and the US was pouring across the Rhine.

 

[Nicolas I]

They actually managed to bring down way more Allied soldiers than the Allied ones could bring down of German. F*** the Allies, damn Roosevelt, Churchill, and Stalin straight to hell.

Thanks to them we don't have hell on earth for 1000 years.

 

[Orlunu]

Thanks to them we don't have hell on earth for 1000 years.

And if we'd had someone halfway reasonable instead of Roosevelt, we could've got the same result with a couple of million fewer dead, largely innocents.

Not gonna speculate about a Stalin replacement, that's far too alt-history.

 

[canthinkofaname415]

Thanks to them we don't have hell on earth for 1000 years.

Oh yeah because the world has just been one great big party ever since the Allies won. We've had loads of wars, like 30% of the planet was under 1984 esque communist rule, cultures and societies in the European continent, North America, and Australia are being displaced and screwed up, the global economy is crap, everyone is stupid and un-educated and selfish, its like one big idiocracy (look up the movie).

If the Axis had won the world would be way better off.

 

[TheRomanRuler]

Oh yeah because the world has just been one great big party ever since the Allies won. We've had loads of wars, like 30% of the planet was under 1984 esque communist rule, cultures and societies in the European continent, North America, and Australia are being displaced and screwed up, the global economy is crap, everyone is stupid and un-educated and selfish, its like one big idiocracy (look up the movie).

If the Axis had won the world would be way better off.

Well 50% of that is grass-is-greener-on-other-side-of-the-fence syndrome.
Also, modern day kids are the worst thing on the planet. But then again, that was also true 200 000 years ago.

I don`t know if you are right, but i know that had axis won Communist China (extremely dangerous, but luckily sleeping giant with plenty of problems from with in. I recommend everyone watch "China uncensored" channel on youtube) and North Korea would never have existed.

Here is random video from China uncensored channel.

 

[Orlunu]

Oh yeah because the world has just been one great big party ever since the Allies won. We've had loads of wars, like 30% of the planet was under 1984 esque communist rule

Now, be fair. The breaches of citizens rights are pretty bad, yeah, imprisonment without trial, spying, extra-judicial executions, and so on, but Obama and the various EU leaders aren't technically communists.

 

[Carroarmato-P40]

Never heard of the Casablanca declaration and the doctrine of unconditional surrender ? This was in january 1943.

Didn't the demand for unconditional surrender come after the Yalta conference in 1944?

 

[Pippo Franchino]

Oh yeah because the world has just been one great big party ever since the Allies won. We've had loads of wars, like 30% of the planet was under 1984 esque communist rule, cultures and societies in the European continent, North America, and Australia are being displaced and screwed up, the global economy is crap, everyone is stupid and un-educated and selfish, its like one big idiocracy (look up the movie).

If the Axis had won the world would be way better off.

See this kind of revisionism from a german make me think some stuffs... I think only the soviets shall have occupied Germany For the 40 years. They were the only one able to treat the surrending Germany in the way they deserved.... The west Germany was too soft u.u Soviet would have managed Germany with better ways.

Speaking about allies.. WW2 was probably the last good move from the western allies in the international politics so!

 

[Novatheorem]

This thread is way off topic, and I am almost certain that this thread will be locked, but two questions if it isn't:

1. Have they covered government in exile rules at all? Since a conquered nation that isn't the faction leader can't surrender, what can they do?
2. If a faction leader folds and is then liberated (Germany conquered by SU, pushed back out by Italy, for example), does the faction get re-established? What happens to all the former members? I doubt this will happen with the Axis, but it's very likely to be a result of created factions...