Can I make oooone suggestion for a Machu/Qing buff?

[hashinshin]

If we increased the core creation cost reduction on manchu to 25-30% instead of 20% it would help Machu be able to conquer China reliably by the time they are supposed to. Considering that the Manchu are supposed to be a tier 1 nation from this game's time frame on the same level of conquest/domination as the Ottomans I don't see why they couldn't get their ideas buffed a little (even if they are already good.)

 

[Evanescent]

Perhaps what's needed is an event that fires once certain conditions are met, which will make several provinces simply flip to QNG tag. I mean, they didn't really 'conquer' China... they never got beyond Shanhaiguan until Ming got undone by Li Zicheng's rebellion.
(Also make some changes to the requirement of forming QNG, which requires holding Beijing... silly)

 

[Concrete]

I don't know if it's something I was doing wrong, but as Qing holding all of China, both before and after AoW (two separate games); I received no modifiers for; nor was able to repair the great wall or build the forbidden city.
Granted, I'm not sure northern invaders would have an interest in repairing the wall; but the forbidden city should remain a big deal.

 

[nalfz]

To be fair to China, you can hardly say that the Manchu were 'supposed' to conquer them. It was incredibly bad fortune for the Chinese, or good fortune for the Manchu, depending on how you look at it. Ming was in the middle of what would be termed in game as a peasant war and they had essentially no money and no food due to famine so the Aisin Gioro just waltzed in there and took it because they hated the Ming

The way to make Qing more possible would probably be to make some big famine event chain for Ming that gives them huge revolts and increases the cost of their troops substantially so they either have to disband, reduce maintenance (which would both help the Manchu conquer them) or find some other way to earn enough money to pay them (like trade or something, the player could do this)

P.S. I haven't ever played the Ming so I'm not sure if an event chain like this exists. If so it might need to be made more potent depending on how often the Manchu actually manage to conquer their way into China and whether that frequency is deemed acceptable

 

[SignedName]

The decision to become Qing ought to just automatically give cores on all Chinese provinces.

 

[nalfz]

The decision to become Qing ought to just automatically give cores on all Chinese provinces.

Not really. Qing only requires a few provinces in the north. Cores on the Chinese region should be based on the Mandate of Heaven. Manchu conquering a small sliver of northern China doesn't necessarily mean that the Ming had lost the Mandate. Only when it was certain that the Ming were collapsing would the people have believed they'd lost the Mandate and the Qing had gained it

 

[Less]

The way to make Qing more possible would probably be to make some big famine event chain for Ming that gives them huge revolts and increases the cost of their troops substantially so they either have to disband, reduce maintenance (which would both help the Manchu conquer them) or find some other way to earn enough money to pay them (like trade or something, the player could do this)

Ming is pretty much under these penalties 24/7 until they westernize, it's tied to the Celestial Empire government. Though the revolt thing only happens due to losing the mandate of heaven (which can come from a whole host of factors, some uncontrollable).

(Also make some changes to the requirement of forming QNG, which requires holding Beijing... silly)

I'm not sure of exactly what point in history the Manchu staked their claim to being the successor state to Ming China, but it stands to reason that from the standpoint of the Chinese and the rest of the world that the Manchu would need to have some success in their conquests before such a claim was considered legitimate.

 

[Clownie]

Ming is pretty much under these penalties 24/7 until they westernize, it's tied to the Celestial Empire government. Though the revolt thing only happens due to losing the mandate of heaven (which can come from a whole host of factors, some uncontrollable).



I'm not sure of exactly what point in history the Manchu staked their claim to being the successor state to Ming China, but it stands to reason that from the standpoint of the Chinese and the rest of the world that the Manchu would need to have some success in their conquests before such a claim was considered legitimate.

Either <60 legitimacy or <0 stability is 'a host' of factors?

 

[Illianor123]

Do they at last get claims over china?

 

[Kirikano]

Eh I dunno about an event that flips Ming provinces to Qing (or gives Qing cores everywhere) although that is how it historically happened. I feel like a human player could abuse that incredibly easily and unit China within 30 years, unless the MTTH is so long it might as well be useless. I suggested buffs to their ideas not too long before 1.8 and most of them were implemented, except moving the shock bonus earlier when it is more useful and buffing coring reduction cost to at least generic horde level, or even higher than Ottomans level, since Qing conquered more stuff than even the Ottomans in the timeframe of the game.

 

[Less]

Either <60 legitimacy or <0 stability is 'a host' of factors?

I remembered there being other possible reasons to lose it but taking a look those are mostly circumstantial (less than 20 cities or westernizing). So, ehh. Sure, consider my wording there misleading.