Can CK2 handle having mercenaries always on the map like Imperator?

[Orphalesion]

I do it all the time. I convert for a werk, give back rome, set up an antipope and press his claim. Easy. Then you can still take all his holdings amd give it to loyal pagans or whatever you play with.

Yeah I don't like doing gamey exploits like that, clashes with my roleplaying.

 

[Tatterhood]

It would be a large, largely worthless endeavor on Paradox's part to fix their system to retarget them to Bilbo the Homeless Immortal that you can't find in the character finder

HIP does this fwiw. CK2+ on the other hand uses the Coptic Pope since his permanent existence is easier to ignore.

 

[klopkr]

Has any mod tried to do this yet? Is there even a way to do this in a mod?

 

[jumbi]

Has any mod tried to do this yet? Is there even a way to do this in a mod?

There's no way to transfer control of an army from one character to another, so hiring on-map mercs would require either deleting their on-map army and spawning event troops (which would make recording their size over time extremely difficult) or having the mercs joining as an ally in the war. As the join war commands are extremely limited in what they can do, the best option would probably be giving on-map mercenaries a special government type which all others can call to arms like tribals, having them be vassalised by the hirer, and having either a monthly event start pinging to pay the mercs (making their monthly cost more difficult to track for the hirer) or adding a character modifier to both the hirer and the commander to track expenses/payment, though the inability to measure unit sizes would make adjusting the cost of maintaining the mercenary band to be relative to their size impossible.

I feel the call-to-arms with event-based expenses is probably the best route out of the above, though it would need a fair bit of maintenance on the backend to make sure that things like succession and realm changes don't bork the mercs' contract. Without proper engine support or even a command for transferring unit ownership, it's not something that I feel would be very satisfying to play with. Or I've missed some extremely obvious scripting possibility

 

[Rubidium]

2) It'd be pretty weird for a non-Catholic Empire to keep the head of a dead/hostile religion in a position of power.

Just wanted to note that keeping the leader of a religious minority as a puppet actually wasn't uncommon; the Ottomans intentionally let the Ecumenical Patriarch stay in Constantinople after they conquered it, and the Jews in various places in Europe were allowed to keep their local leaders. It was useful for the occupiers to have someone to negotiate with whenever issues came up, and it was much better than having a significant portion of your population owe loyalty to a religious leader in exile in some other country.

 

[jonjowett]

There's no way to transfer control of an army from one character to another

Isn't there already an event in-game where you stop paying the mercenaries so they switch sides? I've seen this happen even in the middle of an ongoing battle. If so, doesn't that suggest that there is a way to dynamically change the owner of an army?

 

[jumbi]

Isn't there already an event in-game where you stop paying the mercenaries so they switch sides? I've seen this happen even in the middle of an ongoing battle. If so, doesn't that suggest that there is a way to dynamically change the owner of an army?

In code, yes. In script, which is all that's available to modders, no. The event that you receive informing of the mercenaries switching sides is merely a notification fired from one of the on_merc_turn_coat on_action blocks, with the heavy lifting being done by the code behind the triggering of either of the on_actions.

 

[jonjowett]

In code, yes. In script, which is all that's available to modders, no. The event that you receive informing of the mercenaries switching sides is merely a notification fired from one of the on_merc_turn_coat on_action blocks, with the heavy lifting being done by the code behind the triggering of either of the on_actions.

Perhaps this is a naive question... Is it possible to trigger the on_merc_turn_coat event via script? If so, you could possibly use it to turncoat them from "neutral" to their employer then back to "neutral" again...

 

[jumbi]

Perhaps this is a naive question... Is it possible to trigger the on_merc_turn_coat event via script? If so, you could possibly use it to turncoat them from "neutral" to their employer then back to "neutral" again...

Sadly not. In general, on_actions can't be triggered directly. Some, e.g. on_death, can be triggered by firing commands that set up the requisite conditions for it to fire (firing the death command on character in this case), but the turncoat blocks have no such easy, time-insensitive trigger. In addition, were one to somehow forcefully trigger the code that handles switching the mercenaries to fight for another character and call the on_action, you would have no way of changing who they'd switch their loyalty to, and if such a calling were to be made possible, it could only ever be used to have mercenaries betray you in a wider variety of circumstances.

 

[jonjowett]

Sadly not. In general, on_actions can't be triggered directly. Some, e.g. on_death, can be triggered by firing commands that set up the requisite conditions for it to fire (firing the death command on character in this case), but the turncoat blocks have no such easy, time-insensitive trigger. In addition, were one to somehow forcefully trigger the code that handles switching the mercenaries to fight for another character and call the on_action, you would have no way of changing who they'd switch their loyalty to, and if such a calling were to be made possible, it could only ever be used to have mercenaries betray you in a wider variety of circumstances.

Pity. But thanks for clarifying!

 

[jumbi]

Pity. But thanks for clarifying!

No worries!

 

[klopkr]

@jumbi
So I guess this has to be done by the devs. It should be doable with the same event as the mercenaries rebelling though if they did it right? I can't see why not.

 

[jumbi]

@jumbi
So I guess this has to be done by the devs. It should be doable with the same event as the mercenaries rebelling though if they did it right? I can't see why not.

The event that fires when mercenaries switch sides is only a notification event.

#On-Action: Mercs switch side FROM you
letter_event = {
    id = 38052
    desc = EVTDESC38052
   
    is_triggered_only = yes
   
    trigger = {
        ai = no
    }
   
    option = {
        name = EVTOPTA38052
        chronicle = {
            entry = CHRONICLE_MERC_BETRAY
            portrait = [From.GetID]
        }
    }
}

#On-Action: Mercs switch side TO you
letter_event = {
    id = 38053
    desc = EVTDESC38053
   
    is_triggered_only = yes
   
    trigger = {
        ai = no
    }
   
    option = {
        name = EVTOPTA38053
        chronicle = {
            entry = CHRONICLE_MERC_DEFECT_TO_ME
            portrait = [From.GetID]
        }
    }
}

The act of actually switching their loyalty is inaccessible through script.

 

[klopkr]

Yeah what i meant is paradox should do it since modders can't.