Can anyone explain logic behind size of rebel stack spawning.

[Arinsar]

Ok here whats happen. While playing as Poland you are getting this unhistorical event "nieszawa privelige" (in game implementation of that event is pure failure) , even fired in 1473 ... choice accept and get +5 tech -20 stability or get 42k rebel stack ? WTF max manpower is 22k and i am getting stack doubling my manpower... briliant idea from paradox (not mentioning that they rebels have 3.8 morale compared to my 3.5).

 

[Sharples88]

If you think that's bad try and conquer all of the dutch provinces and have the entire population of the Dutch culture provinces rebel against you. They're usually nasty stacks (25-35k) that come like every 10-15 years in every province. Until 1650.

 

[Equester]

I love it when you get a rebel stack from one province you recently conquered and it's larger than the entire army of the nation you took the province from and/or larger than your army. My guess is, that the logic behind rebel sizes is that they need to be a challenge for the player and ai to actually have some measure of chance to succeed, but it gets a bit ridicules at times. Same with event rebels as the op mentions.

 

[YuriiH]

The artificial limitation of player's expansion speed.
Apart of that—a quick rebel army that is bigger and better equipped (with artillery) than the regular army of the recently conquered country has zero logic.

 

[Horn and Ivory]

Poland in the 1470s was still very feudal and very decentralised, with a notoriously powerful magnate class, many of whom retained their own private armies. The idea that a fairly united disgruntled nobility could put together an army twice the size of what the king could muster (especially given that he is denied the levies from the rebelling nobles) is completely plausible.

 

[Arinsar]

If you think that's bad try and conquer all of the dutch provinces and have the entire population of the Dutch culture provinces rebel against you. They're usually nasty stacks (25-35k) that come like every 10-15 years in every province. Until 1650.

The artificial limitation of player's expansion speed.
Apart of that—a quick rebel army that is bigger and better equipped than the regular army of the recently conquered country has zero logic.

It has nothing to do with player conquering anything. Its even which fires between 1460-1485. Those are rebels from YOUR own country ... its DOUBLE of my manpower, also what is the reason for them having better morale ?

 

[YuriiH]

its DOUBLE of my manpower

Ah, you're talking about the “historical” event… It was designed just to immerse a Poland-player into the game, and also to emerge some “historical” fire from the player's rare end.

 

[Arinsar]

Poland in the 1470s was still very feudal and very decentralised, with a notoriously powerful magnate class, many of whom retained their own private armies. The idea that a fairly united disgruntled nobility could put together an army twice the size of what the king could muster (especially given that he is denied the levies from the rebelling nobles) is completely plausible.

First ... you are mixing centuries in 15 century there was no magnate who was able to pull anything like that not mentioning one who would have standing army twice of any manpower pool (magnates grow in power after Union of Lublin when their estates included land they were given in Ukraine when it was incorporated into Crown of Poland).
Second ... I am talking about game mechanic. Poland got few very badly designed events which have outcome not even close to historical, basicly they are reason to get huge stacks of rebels , nothing else.
Just to name a few :
The Nieszawa Privileges
The Statute of Piotrkow
The Struggle for Royal Power - by far the worst one and i am not talking about 100k+ rebels.

Ah, you're talking about the “historical” event… It was designed just to immerse a Poland-player into the game, and also to emerge some “historical” fire from the player's rare end.

That event have no firing conditions (except for the date) you have no real way to deal with it neither. On top of that both outcomes are negative.

 

[DanubianCossak]

I hate that thing with a burning passion.

Game would be so much better if rebels were actually anchored on the map and came from somewhere, a place that provided clear X amount of regiments, and it fluctuated depending on context.

 

[YuriiH]

That event have no firing conditions (except for the date) you have no real way to deal with it neither. On top of that both outcomes are negative.

The target goal of the event is achieved

 

[Kagemin]

Revolt size depends on the development of the affected provinces and, to a lesser extent, your tech. Iirc some of the Polish events spawn rebels in your capital or other big cities, so that will mean high development usually.
Additionally the events have a higher revolt size than "normal" rebels spawned from unrest, the "Struggle for Royal Power" for example spawns one stack that has six times the normal size plus one that is three times as large.

As far as I know manpower doesn't matter for rebel sizes, only your force limit.

And the special "Polish Magnate" rebels are pretty nasty indeed, they get a bonus to their morale that normal noble rebels don't.

 

[Bibor]

Poland is the best positioned European Power in the game (if you exclude the Ottomans). It easily beats Muscovy in this regard, as it is not politically isolated.
Depending on how rivalries pan out, it might even ally the Ottoman and bore deep into HRE with little fear of AE, as most of its neighbors are either Orthodox or soon turning protestant.
The only three downsides to Poland are its horrid events, monarchy type and it's economic base based on taxes, so it's basically forced to expand into more lucrative production hubs. Probably into Anatolia

As for the rebels, well, you know about the events, you know they'll happen. So be ready. Temporarily purchasing enough mercenaries to deal with the issue is always a solution; not a cheap one, but - considering the alternatives - not terribly expensive either.

 

[Arinsar]

Poland is the best positioned European Power in the game (if you exclude the Ottomans). It easily beats Muscovy in this regard, as it is not politically isolated.
Depending on how rivalries pan out, it might even ally the Ottoman and bore deep into HRE with little fear of AE, as most of its neighbors are either Orthodox or soon turning protestant.
The only three downsides to Poland are its horrid events, monarchy type and it's economic base based on taxes, so it's basically forced to expand into more lucrative production hubs. Probably into Anatolia

As for the rebels, well, you know about the events, you know they'll happen. So be ready. Temporarily purchasing enough mercenaries to deal with the issue is always a solution; not a cheap one, but - considering the alternatives - not terribly expensive either.

I will disregard first part of your post since i am not asking how to play or something like that.
Its about SIZE of rebel stack in even files says rebels size 3 WTF does that mean 3 = 2x max manpower or what ? Imagine getting such event let say Ottomans 80k STACk which you cant touch since it have better morale than you. Even if they siege mountain fort you wont break them. Another thing .... there is 25 years window for that even ... so no you DONT know when it happen (usually in worst possible moment).

 

[Dominion]

They don't spawn in a single stack. You can pick them off.

Yes, the event is disastrous, but it's meant to be that way.

 

[Arinsar]

They don't spawn in a single stack. You can pick them off.

Yes, the event is disastrous, but it's meant to be that way.

They do spawn in a single stack.

 

[Dominion]

They do spawn in a single stack.

Ohhh, the Nieszawa. Yea... I should probably work on my reading comprehension.

Either way, throw some mercs in and be done. I understand the frustration, but it's not like they're unbeatable.
Standard rebel size is way worse. There's a reason why people immediately tried to derail the thread into a general "rebel stack size too big" discussion and away from the event.

 

[Arinsar]

Ohhh, the Nieszawa. Yea... I should probably work on my reading comprehension.

Either way, throw some mercs in and be done. I understand the frustration, but it's not like they're unbeatable.
Standard rebel size is way worse. There's a reason why people immediately tried to derail the thread into a general "rebel stack size too big" discussion and away from the event.

I have about 2500 hours or EU4, prolly 750-1000 out of that playing Poland and this was first time rebel stack size was over 30k, problem is that usually around 1470 you are having max 20k troops as Poland and there is no way you have enough money to buy enough mercs (you would have to hire like 20 regiments thats like 1200 gold...).

 

[YuriiH]

this was first time rebel stack size was over 30k, problem is that usually around 1470 you are having max 20k troops as Poland

Right from the start Poland has 29 force limit. If you annex Mazowia, you get around 31. If you accept Lithuania under PU, you get around 2-4 more. if you ineffectively wage some wars, you get at least around 2 (because of the autonomy and ineffective conquering). SO, you have 29+2+3+2 = 36 troops at least.
36k > 20k
You have probably miscalculated something. Besides, by 1470 Your combat width is 22 max. So, those 30k don't really fight all together, and you can simply start with 22, and reinforce with 36-22 = FOURTEEN MORE TROOPS, or just ineffectively fight with your 36 VS 30 rebels.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's a lot worse to get a 20 stack when your FL is 9 TBH, there should be some kind of capping logic. That said I'm not a fan of any "historical" event that lacks historical causality (thus neutering any coherent justification of its existence based on being historical in EU 4 terms). This isn't as bad as trash like NED, burgundian inheritance, magic marches, event PUs that end wars w/o consequences, or a current tech/institution Inca getting taken to the cleaners by bogus DHE applicable to a century ago and bugged religion alike, but it's still not ideal.

 

[rinehime]

Not a big fan of most (a)historical events, but didn't @Trin Tragula say somewhere they were trying to limit rebel stack sizes from events so they weren't larger than the force limit? I think they just fixed some of the rebel events in India for the same reason.