Can allies grant you military control?

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Axe99

Ships for Victory
127 Badges
Feb 13, 2003
15.951
13.022
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For The Glory
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Lead and Gold
  • The Kings Crusade
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Majesty 2 Collection
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Pride of Nations
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
HOI3 sort of had it with allied objectives. The catch is that they're a bit finicky.

As France, I'll set UK objective to Cherbourg. By the time Feb '40 rolls around, there are many UK divisions there ready for me to deploy them.

It's not instant and may take some time, but eventually I'll have a commonwealth army on my hands. Sometimes the AI will even drop their HQs off :D.

It was pretty random though, and hugely under-performs - I suspect the UK forces going to France has a helping hand behind the scenes. Getting the Commonwealth nations to commit much to the European theatre using that system was very tricky, and even then, you'd only get land units (even India had ships in the Battle of the Atlantic, and many of the squadrons in the Battle of Britain were Commonwealth, not UK).
 

Premu

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
63 Badges
Feb 25, 2009
1.891
7.595
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Knights of Honor
  • Prison Architect
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
This is a tricky question - how can we create a system in which we at one hand can start large multi-national operations like overlord without taking over all units of our allies.

Possible solutions:
- You can request expeditionary forces from allies - but not like in HOI III where you would get random amount dropping in, but with a request for a certain number of divisions, aircraft and ships. The allies can either agree, outright decline the request or make a counter-proposal with fewer units. The number of troops allies will be willing to give could depend on factors like relations and their own needs of troops. Also allies can always call back their troops (perhaps with a 1-month waiting time that your front doesn't collapse immediately) if they see the need to do so. If possible expeditionary forces could also be limited to a theater. The USA are maybe willing to lend Britain troops for an invasion of Italy, but they won't like it if Britain sends those troops to India instead.

-Expeditionary forces could be tied to battle plans. A coordinated battle plan can include troops from other nations, and if these nations agree on the plan, they hand over the involved troops as expeditionary forces. Of course there are still some open points: For example, is it possible to add units which are not yet available at the front to a battle plan? (This could be an issue for planning something like overlord, where you need to get the allied forces to Britain first before drawing the exact plan.) And what will happen if the plan was executed successfully, will the forces remain under the players control?
 

Smileyou

Second Lieutenant
15 Badges
Aug 31, 2014
130
11
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Semper Fi
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Battle for Bosporus
the thing i hated the most was playing USSR and when i want to put as many troops in one province without breaking penalty for having too many i get
some mongolians or Tuvanians 1918 infantry or cavalry in the front line pissing me off and making troubles more than anything..

either give us military control of our allies or give us power to give them "general orders"-like ordering them to attack on front-line or be 2-3 provinces at the back for rear-guard
and partisan-watch as you push in..
 

Marcus

Over the top, gentlemen!
28 Badges
Jun 19, 2000
1.889
44
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Pride of Nations
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Stellaris
  • Rise of Prussia
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
All for 'anything but the HOI 3 model'.

The limited Expeditionary Control including Request and Offer sounds good (to turn down the 1st Hungarian Armoured Lawnmower Division, offers from Romania to supply you with 1918 subs or some good ole Italian Cavalry).

Ideally, you could tell Hungary: Please supply 3 of your most updated INF divisions, if possible, keep the rest. While Rumania could offer you the services of the following 8 INF Divisions (where you could see their stats, pick the best 6 ones and use them to plug a hole somewhere.
 

phantomrider

Colonel
23 Badges
Mar 20, 2009
1.050
305
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • 500k Club
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
All for 'anything but the HOI 3 model'.

The limited Expeditionary Control including Request and Offer sounds good (to turn down the 1st Hungarian Armoured Lawnmower Division, offers from Romania to supply you with 1918 subs or some good ole Italian Cavalry).

Ideally, you could tell Hungary: Please supply 3 of your most updated INF divisions, if possible, keep the rest. While Rumania could offer you the services of the following 8 INF Divisions (where you could see their stats, pick the best 6 ones and use them to plug a hole somewhere.

I agree with the "anything but HOI3 model" comment! The request expeditionary forces option also sounds like a reasonable possibility as well. Joint command in the field of allied armies happened often for both Axis and Allies and even the AI in HOI3 doesn't do this. If you want a "sandbox" mid 20th century Europa Universalis game that lasts ~15 yrs HOI3 can do it but if you want a WWII game (even going into alternate history simulations --- if I change a key decsion what would have happened) HOI3 doesn't meet the goal for most of the nations of the world because of the lack of a joint command option. HOI2 with its assume military control was better but again the control was too strong so that the failure or ending of alliances due to change in politics or allies recognizing that the war wasn't going the way they wanted (and defecting from the alliance) could not be simulated.
 

scroggin

Lt. General
20 Badges
Jul 13, 2010
1.685
717
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
I agree with the "anything but HOI3 model" comment! The request expeditionary forces option also sounds like a reasonable possibility as well. Joint command in the field of allied armies happened often for both Axis and Allies and even the AI in HOI3 doesn't do this. If you want a "sandbox" mid 20th century Europa Universalis game that lasts ~15 yrs HOI3 can do it but if you want a WWII game (even going into alternate history simulations --- if I change a key decsion what would have happened) HOI3 doesn't meet the goal for most of the nations of the world because of the lack of a joint command option. HOI2 with its assume military control was better but again the control was too strong so that the failure or ending of alliances due to change in politics or allies recognizing that the war wasn't going the way they wanted (and defecting from the alliance) could not be simulated.
The HOI2 model of military control was very exploitable it allowed you to use a powerful allies forces to do all the heavy work but you could take any territory with your own forces. A New system for allied unified command should go along with a new system to divide up any conquered territory.
I'm definitely in the anything but HOI3 camp, it was the worst.