Can all missions be flashpoints?

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Ghostbear_g

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Just want to say that I love the new flashpoint missions. The little stories and mini campaigns, especially the consecutive deployments are outstanding! I want most if not all contracts to be like this.
I know it's a PITA, but could the devs design a procedural flashpoint system? So we can have a nearly limitless number of flaspoints?
 

mjbroekman

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Entirely possible... Personally, I can think of a number of potential contract chains, but coming up with engaging stories behind them and appropriate rewards is the hard part. You would need to make the rewards appropriate for the employer such that a Pirate or LPG FP isn't throwing LosTech at you while still opening up the possibilty for that to come from House FPs (maybe based on what is potentially found in stores?). And you wouldn't want every procFP to read the same if it has the same mission chain. But yes... it is entirely possible...and hopefully we will see it at some point.

Some quick examples:
- Capture Base => Defend Base => Escort
- Destroy Base => Recovery
- Battle => Assassination => Capture Base
- Ambush Convoy => Battle => Recovery
- Target Acq (data) => Recovery => Target Acq (destroy)
 

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I saw a suggestion at some point inthe forum from a guy suggesting chained missions ala small campaigns where it would be possible to create randomized campaign maps on a planet with possibilities to moce between the campaign areas to do different types of missions.

I am almost afraid to say it, but the suggestion from that guy and the way he laid it out, it actually looked alot better and more fun than what we got with flashpoints.
What he was suggesting was minor additions of art assets to create those campagin "maps" and create a true procedural 'mini-campaign maker' for a planet and it looked awesome.
The flashpoints, in comparison, is basicly just a string of missions with no real awareness by the player to know what to make his choices on. right now, it's like playing an old "choose your path" book, rather than being faced with a real scenario with meaningfull choices based on circumstances and resources.
 

mjbroekman

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What is considered "meaningful" though? The decision you make during the Flashpoint is meaningful. It decides what kind of mission you're going to run and, in some cases, what kind of Flashpoint Reward you're going to get in the end. The Flashpoints presented in the DLC are the beginning of what Flashpoint content can be. There is nothing that says Urban Warfare or DLC3 won't have more involved Flashpoints or that the community won't publish FPs that they've created. The Flashpoint DLC is just the introduction to the mechanic and is entirely suitable for making mini-campaigns. Heck, the SP Campaign could probably be re-written entirely using the Flashpoint mechanics in order to give the player a sense of urgency to completing the priority missions.
 

Havamal

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I saw a suggestion at some point inthe forum from a guy suggesting chained missions ala small campaigns where it would be possible to create randomized campaign maps on a planet with possibilities to moce between the campaign areas to do different types of missions.

I am almost afraid to say it, but the suggestion from that guy and the way he laid it out, it actually looked alot better and more fun than what we got with flashpoints.
What he was suggesting was minor additions of art assets to create those campagin "maps" and create a true procedural 'mini-campaign maker' for a planet and it looked awesome.
The flashpoints, in comparison, is basicly just a string of missions with no real awareness by the player to know what to make his choices on. right now, it's like playing an old "choose your path" book, rather than being faced with a real scenario with meaningfull choices based on circumstances and resources.
Nothing is minor.
 

SpectralShade

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Nothing is minor.

that's a brazen statement.

putting a dot in this message is aminor thing for me:

.

there, nothing special.

The campaign "maps" suggested by the guy back then was more boxes with an icon for terrain type in them with some text on the side to describe the mission layout if you choose to go there.

Yes, icons ARE minor as far as graphics goes.

Heck, you could just take a snap of one of the real maps and just cut a hexagon of a green patch of grass from it and use that as icon for grassland terrain.

If that is NOT minor, then you are working with people that overcomplicate things.
 

Havamal

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that's a brazen statement.

putting a dot in this message is aminor thing for me:

.

there, nothing special.

The campaign "maps" suggested by the guy back then was more boxes with an icon for terrain type in them with some text on the side to describe the mission layout if you choose to go there.

Yes, icons ARE minor as far as graphics goes.

Heck, you could just take a snap of one of the real maps and just cut a hexagon of a green patch of grass from it and use that as icon for grassland terrain.

If that is NOT minor, then you are working with people that overcomplicate things.
HBS Connor on game development, and adding "simple features":
[peripheral note, they did indeed add 'ejections']




"To clarify, in order to make Manual Ejections an option in game, this is what I would consider when making a design request internally.

These and possibly more things would need to happen (In no particular order or organization):

  • Get code in place for non-automated ejection. Could be easy as we already have some stuff going on in the background (as Tyler pointed out earlier in this thread), but I never assume ANY code ask will be easy or quick. That's a sure fire way to be wrong.
  • Make new space on the abilities bar, or elsewhere in the already crowded UI, to put this new button. That requires rework and reflow on the UI to ensure that people see it and can understand it. There are parts of the existing UI that beta feedback has shown to not be fully clear, adding more to that makes things clear as mud.
  • Create the necessary VFX, Sound, and Animations to support the gameplay of 'A Pilot Punching out of a Mech'. Of which there currently is none. So it's entirely new. This may not be totally necessary, but as most things in the game have some sort of grounding, it can be expected we'd want to do this. This also assumes we don't record VO for the pilot ejecting, which takes coordination and $. So when this happens there would be no "I'm punching out, boss!" bark.
  • Create rules and specifications around how the player interacts with this ability. When can it be used. When does it get resolved. Are there penalties or bonuses. How is the pilot handled. Can they take injuries even on a manual ejection.
  • Look into our turn order system to allow for best use by player. For instance our system ends your turn when you fire or use an ability. So you would not be able to say, fire with a Mech X, then immediately after have Pilot Y eject from Mech X. That's cuz your turn ends when you fire the rest is damage resolutions & animations & camera pans that are automated, you've essentially ceded player control when the 'Fire' button is hit. This would require additional code/work in our turn system to allow for you to fire then do anything without your turn ending. Let alone eject.
  • Build into the AI decision tree some node that allows them to consider their survivability rate, and make a call to eject or not. As some of you have pointed out that you would like the enemy AI to eject to save themselves. We want them to eject when it makes sense, and not just at the first sign of trouble, which would consequently have all battles taking 2 minutes because the AI ejects once they take their first crit or big hit.
  • We need sufficient tutorial-ization / messaging to educate players who are unfamiliar with Battletech TT (which will be a big chunk of who will ultimately plays this game) how to eject, what the trade offs and benefits are to a manual ejection, and when it is a good time to eject.
So in my hypothetical we have: (1) a UI designer/artist (possibly both), (2) gameplay programmer, (3) maybe an engine programmer (for the turn order stuff), (4) an AI programmer, (5) a designer, (6) our VFX artist (maybe tech artist too for lighting issues related to the new VFX), (7) animator, and (8) audio designer for this task. All of which will likely need more than 1 pass from each person for implementation and polish. And obvious bug fixing as no feature is ever bug free from the jump. So we'll take on 1-2 QA technicians if I'm being conservative.

We now have tasks for (at least) 8 people (not including the big dogs like lead design and production to make sure people are keeping track of this feature). And even though each of their individual part may be small or short in time required, it ultimately takes away from their already big lists of bugs and features to work on leading up to ship.

So while I agree. I personally would love to have manual ejections. It takes away from the focus on other issues of higher priority and frankly the other unfinished parts of the game that we've made Kickstarter commitments to. This is not to say the idea is bad or to shut down any discussion on it, please continue as these things help inform our future decisions. Nor am I soliciting solutions for the hypothetical problems I've laid out. We have an incredibly talented team here at HBS, they can solve just about any problem you throw at them, and solve it well. I have no concern on that count. No matter which way you slice it, even if it was a silent operation with no VFX/SFX/Animations needed, and even if it was JUST for player and not AI, this is still a chunk of work. Though when you have time on the clock (and we do), you have to pick which problems you solve, "Focus equals Quality."

Now I am not our director, nor our producer. So even I am not fully qualified to make such a judgement. But that's my thought process if I was gonna push for such a thing (and it's sorta my job to push for features). I say all of this to explain that even a 'light' implementation of any new system is a risky proposal that must be weighed and decided on. Our current plan is not to support manual ejection.

In summation, some things that are PURELY data we can tweak with low risk. But if it is a new interaction model we don't currently have, the best first assumption is that it would be non-trivial to build.

Hope that clarifies some. :)"
 

Havamal

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that's a brazen statement.

putting a dot in this message is aminor thing for me:
Adding a new feature into the existing hierarchy of pre-planned priority weighted ongoing development is not adding "a dot"

;)
 

SpectralShade

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Adding a new feature into the existing hierarchy of pre-planned weighted ongoing development is not adding "a dot"

;)
I was saying Minor about the graphics campaign map. And you are now applying that minor to everything. Congratulations on misrepresenting what I said.

*claps*

And no, the code base and implementation of it all would not be minor. It would be on the scale of an expansion. Like flashpoint... actually. Except it would have given a better feeling of control and flow than what we got now, which is basicly more of the same. I'm not seeing anything, apart from new maps and new mechs, that weren't experienced in some part in the game prior. Some of the campaign missions are basicly what are now called flashpoints.

That's why I am disapointed overall. Because people made some really good suggestions on the forum about what could be done with mini campaigns, and instead we got something that was just more of the same.

Expansions are where you have the option to 'push the envelope' and add some new mechanics and exerperiences. Instead we got 'handcrafted' missions posing as dynamic mini campaigns.

When I say posing, it's because they are not dynamic. They are pre-scripted with some rng thrown in, and then it's called a day. Considering what they COULD have done, I'mpretty disapoitned with what they delivered in this expansion, and frankly I'm wondering if it was a good idea to purchase the season pass if things aren't going to change more in the game from expansions than what we got from this expansion.
 

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I was saying Minor about the graphics campaign map. And you are now applying that minor to everything. Congratulations on misrepresenting what I said.

*claps*

And no, the code base and implementation of it all would not be minor. It would be on the scale of an expansion. Like flashpoint... actually. Except it would have given a better feeling of control and flow than what we got now, which is basicly more of the same. I'm not seeing anything, apart from new maps and new mechs, that weren't experienced in some part in the game prior. Some of the campaign missions are basicly what are now called flashpoints.
Nothing minor about adding an entirely new UI map mechanic.

Or more complex mission mechanics that integrate with it.

I'mpretty disapoitned with what they delivered in this expansion, and frankly I'm wondering if it was a good idea to purchase the season pass if things aren't going to change more in the game from expansions than what we got from this expansion.
Personal prerogative. :shrug:
 

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Nothing is minor.
Fixing a bunch of simple typos... very minor. Fixing them before releasing them still very minor. Fixing them after knowing and acknowledging them in a Stream 2 months before release, yup still very minor.

Some of this becomes not minor after release. But things like fixing ammo on a tank... actually pretty damn simple all of the time.
 

Havamal

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Fixing a bunch of simple typos... very minor. Fixing them before releasing them still very minor. Fixing them after knowing and acknowledging them in a Stream 2 months before release, yup still very minor.

Some of this becomes not minor after release. But things like fixing ammo on a tank... actually pretty damn simple all of the time.
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...issions-be-flashpoints.1132615/#post-24905203

Adding a [fix] into the existing hierarchy of pre-planned priority weighted ongoing development is not [minor]

Things are always in the appearance of being easy when we aren't the ones that have to do it officially, by ignoring the context. As has been shared before, all is prioritized in a long work order load.
It's budgeted. Do one thing and then won't be about to do another in the alotted time.
Nothing minor about it.


Straying off-topic a bit...