Yup, just learned that today after having done numerous Ironmen with AI bonuses on :-D
Can Albania survive in the current patch?
- Thread starter Saltiren
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You have to give Albania to them, they won't accept any other peace (atleast i haven't been able to give anything else) especially if they already sieged it down. You should build up your relationship with both Austria and Poland during the initial war with Ottoman so you can immediately after the war get alliance with them (send alliance request to both on the same day). Venice has actually never warned me in my runs so i haven't had that issue but i DoW Ragusa almost immediately after Ottoman war and alliance with Austria/Poland.
*edit*
Remember that you can raise your relationship with Austria/Poland twice each month by sending diplomat, recalling it on the 1th of each month and resending it as soon as possible.
I was gonna try my theory for this... Declare on Venice. Offer vassalisation (i think venice might accept that, yes?).
Then ask support independance from Austria, france etc, while venice is at war with ottomans since they vassalised you while you were at war with ottomans. Funny thing is that venice in this situation can call in all their allies...
See where i'm going with this?
This ofc depends on who is enemy/rival of venice. I doubt there is other country that might accept Albania as a vassal..
Heck, maybe offering you as a vassal to ottomans might work if ottomans start with rival Austria and aragon etc.
Didn't have chance yet to test if this works.
Then ask support independance from Austria, france etc, while venice is at war with ottomans since they vassalised you while you were at war with ottomans. Funny thing is that venice in this situation can call in all their allies...
See where i'm going with this?
This ofc depends on who is enemy/rival of venice. I doubt there is other country that might accept Albania as a vassal..
Heck, maybe offering you as a vassal to ottomans might work if ottomans start with rival Austria and aragon etc.
Didn't have chance yet to test if this works.
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Could work but i don't see the point in getting extra -3 stab (or -1 if already at -2) when the Bosnia -> Ragusa -> Dalmatia tactics work basicly everytime.
I wanted to try this start with Hard AI/AI bonuses to see if it can be done.
First, I can say that in every game out of about 30, the Ottomans attacked with 20k and arrived on November 21st -- even using the tactic described on the previous page.
However, it is possible to fight that initial battle and escape with 4 units intact though it only works around 60% of the time (totally dependent on combat rolls, morale/discipline advisors also improve your odds). What you do is build a merc infantry on day 1, meaning it finishes while the battle in Albania is ongoing, also you need to get military access from Hungary and Austria (Ottomans will often get MA from Hungary and chase you there), and send your cog out to sea. On December 2nd, if your army hasn't been wiped, you're able to retreat (usually you've taken 50% casualties). Manually retreat your main force of 3 led by Skanderbeg all the way to Lika; your merc regiment will have near 0 morale, so you can only shattered retreat it, and this is where the cog comes in -- retreat the merc regiment out to the cog and then by January while it's out at sea its morale will have recovered enough to disembark it in Lika to meet up with your other regiments.
Now, apart from escaping with an intact force, what options do you have? You're going to have to wait several months for your regiments to fully reinforce, and by that point Bosnia has typically built additional regiments so that it now has a force of 8. I tried going for other minors like Urbino, but with Hard AI/AI bonuses, as soon as you declare war the northern Italian countries will hate you and cancel your military access, so you would have to be very careful in microing your diplomats to improve relations enough that they don't do this when the AE penalty hits.
The start that finally worked was a low chance occurrence. The Ottomans had warned Aq Qoyunla, so when AQ declared on Trebizond, the Ottomans were drawn in. They even left the siege of Albania and sent all of their stacks east. I sent around a 1 stack looting all of the western Ottoman provinces so I didn't go bankrupt. During this time, the inevitable Serbia/Bosnia war happened, so I just piled in on Bosnia and made sure to get siege leader on provinces. The Ottomans eventually came back and things got messy, but I ended up with a province in Bosnia and Austria/Poland as allies, then a war against Venice got me Ragusa/Dalmatia and I moved capital to join the HRE.
I tried declaring war on pretty much everyone around to see who would accept vassalage as a peace offer, and thereby draw them into war with the Ottomans. Sometimes, maybe around 25-30% of the time, Byzantium or Aragon will have the Domineering attitude (iron gauntlet icon next to relations) and only in this circumstance will they accept vassalage if you declare on them. Problem is, neither country can beat the Ottomans on land (Aragon destroyed the Ottoman navy and blockaded, but made no effort to land troops -- probably a good idea considering their odds). And eventually the warscore ticks from Albania's occupation will mean that the Ottomans have enough to take stuff and both of your potential overlords are fully willing to give away Albania -- game over.
Anyone who starts as hostile will want full annexation (Venice/Ottomans), and anyone neutral will refuse to accept you as a vassal.
First, I can say that in every game out of about 30, the Ottomans attacked with 20k and arrived on November 21st -- even using the tactic described on the previous page.
However, it is possible to fight that initial battle and escape with 4 units intact though it only works around 60% of the time (totally dependent on combat rolls, morale/discipline advisors also improve your odds). What you do is build a merc infantry on day 1, meaning it finishes while the battle in Albania is ongoing, also you need to get military access from Hungary and Austria (Ottomans will often get MA from Hungary and chase you there), and send your cog out to sea. On December 2nd, if your army hasn't been wiped, you're able to retreat (usually you've taken 50% casualties). Manually retreat your main force of 3 led by Skanderbeg all the way to Lika; your merc regiment will have near 0 morale, so you can only shattered retreat it, and this is where the cog comes in -- retreat the merc regiment out to the cog and then by January while it's out at sea its morale will have recovered enough to disembark it in Lika to meet up with your other regiments.
Now, apart from escaping with an intact force, what options do you have? You're going to have to wait several months for your regiments to fully reinforce, and by that point Bosnia has typically built additional regiments so that it now has a force of 8. I tried going for other minors like Urbino, but with Hard AI/AI bonuses, as soon as you declare war the northern Italian countries will hate you and cancel your military access, so you would have to be very careful in microing your diplomats to improve relations enough that they don't do this when the AE penalty hits.
The start that finally worked was a low chance occurrence. The Ottomans had warned Aq Qoyunla, so when AQ declared on Trebizond, the Ottomans were drawn in. They even left the siege of Albania and sent all of their stacks east. I sent around a 1 stack looting all of the western Ottoman provinces so I didn't go bankrupt. During this time, the inevitable Serbia/Bosnia war happened, so I just piled in on Bosnia and made sure to get siege leader on provinces. The Ottomans eventually came back and things got messy, but I ended up with a province in Bosnia and Austria/Poland as allies, then a war against Venice got me Ragusa/Dalmatia and I moved capital to join the HRE.
I tried declaring war on pretty much everyone around to see who would accept vassalage as a peace offer, and thereby draw them into war with the Ottomans. Sometimes, maybe around 25-30% of the time, Byzantium or Aragon will have the Domineering attitude (iron gauntlet icon next to relations) and only in this circumstance will they accept vassalage if you declare on them. Problem is, neither country can beat the Ottomans on land (Aragon destroyed the Ottoman navy and blockaded, but made no effort to land troops -- probably a good idea considering their odds). And eventually the warscore ticks from Albania's occupation will mean that the Ottomans have enough to take stuff and both of your potential overlords are fully willing to give away Albania -- game over.
Anyone who starts as hostile will want full annexation (Venice/Ottomans), and anyone neutral will refuse to accept you as a vassal.
well, i was talking about asking support independance and declare on first war target after securing some alliances, while they still are fighting ottomans. But this tactic relies even more on luck it seems.
Does 2 months qualify as thread necro?
In any case, I don't have much time to play today so I gave the Albania start a few goes. For a start, non-ironman with player bonuses - your initial force is 5 so defeating Bosnia's stack is effortless.
First try I took my eyes off the prize, had Bosnia and Donji Krai occupied and sieging Hum, but Otto finished Albania and came for my 3 regiments stationed in the occupied Bosnia province.
Second go, even with scorched on Albania, I failed to occupy either Bosnia or Donji Krai in time before Otto forced full annexation.
Third go, I've managed to take Donji Krai + Hum + vassalize Bosnia, but before Otto agreed to peace out (had to offer Albania, War Reps AND all my cash for them to agree, "relative strength of alliances -34" ftl), Venice DoWed me for Albania and Serbia DoWed me for Travunia. I could take on Serbia maybe, but not on top of a 13-stack from Venice. No break between wars so no chance to ally Austria. Does such a quick DoW happen often?
In any case, I don't have much time to play today so I gave the Albania start a few goes. For a start, non-ironman with player bonuses - your initial force is 5 so defeating Bosnia's stack is effortless.
First try I took my eyes off the prize, had Bosnia and Donji Krai occupied and sieging Hum, but Otto finished Albania and came for my 3 regiments stationed in the occupied Bosnia province.
Second go, even with scorched on Albania, I failed to occupy either Bosnia or Donji Krai in time before Otto forced full annexation.
Third go, I've managed to take Donji Krai + Hum + vassalize Bosnia, but before Otto agreed to peace out (had to offer Albania, War Reps AND all my cash for them to agree, "relative strength of alliances -34" ftl), Venice DoWed me for Albania and Serbia DoWed me for Travunia. I could take on Serbia maybe, but not on top of a 13-stack from Venice. No break between wars so no chance to ally Austria. Does such a quick DoW happen often?
I tried to survive and you can easily survive. But you have to give away your capital to the Ottomans. Im at -99% warscore (i did the non-CB on Bosnia) and they only accept peace if you give them the province Albania.
Question: In earlier patches it was possible to just concede defeat and hold Albania. In 1.9 it isnt?
Question: In earlier patches it was possible to just concede defeat and hold Albania. In 1.9 it isnt?
I just gave Albania to the Ottomans--it might be possible to avoid that if you can somehow stall the war long enough, but the opportunity cost of waiting five years just so you can salvage Albania is certainly not worth it. Just give the Ottomans what they want as soon as you're able to do so and survive so you can start expanding elsewhere--if you're not above it, you can save your money by queuing up troops, as the Ottomans won't ask you for money you don't have on hand.
I think it's worth giving up albania, it's a pretty terrible province.
I think the trick to this run is that most of your neighbours will get stomped at some point. You can take bosnia on your own, Ragusa as well. Serbia is easy when the Ottomans declare on the Byzantines. Hungary is easy when they're sieged by poland. Maybe I got lucky, this was my first try. But getting all that was enough to expand into southern Italy and beyond.
I think the trick to this run is that most of your neighbours will get stomped at some point. You can take bosnia on your own, Ragusa as well. Serbia is easy when the Ottomans declare on the Byzantines. Hungary is easy when they're sieged by poland. Maybe I got lucky, this was my first try. But getting all that was enough to expand into southern Italy and beyond.
This strategy is without AI bonuses.
You can recruit a merc, beat the Bosnian army, wipe them in Travunia, devote 2k to sieging, 1 stack (any amount of men) to stopping Bosnia from producing troops, 1 stack (any amount of men) to loot (you can loot all the way up to Thessalonica). Assuming you take Donji before Ottomans take Albania (well, otherwise you lose, right?), you use your looting money to buy mercs to hide your money from Ottomans. Take Donji Kraji and Hum, peace out Ottomans for Albania. DOW Ragusa and Serbia right after. Since you looted Ottomans you can go up to 8k men to beat the Serbian army, since you have Skanderbeg it should be pretty consistent.
Nice part about this is you can secure Kosovo gold without ever taking a loan. You're still small enough to join the HRE. I prefer taking Lika than Dalmatia though, Hungary is far more hated and Austria + Venice are often friendly.
I prefer to convert to Orthodox ASAP (once you dow you can immediately accept Orthodox zealot demands). This means you're unlikely to ever get the emperorship but at least you aren't tanking 25+ unrest early in Serbia. Orthodox tolerance is extremely high as well, meaning you can manually lower autonomy without risking any revolts. It also allows lessens the pain of trucebreaking later when you feel like consuming Iberia.
You can recruit a merc, beat the Bosnian army, wipe them in Travunia, devote 2k to sieging, 1 stack (any amount of men) to stopping Bosnia from producing troops, 1 stack (any amount of men) to loot (you can loot all the way up to Thessalonica). Assuming you take Donji before Ottomans take Albania (well, otherwise you lose, right?), you use your looting money to buy mercs to hide your money from Ottomans. Take Donji Kraji and Hum, peace out Ottomans for Albania. DOW Ragusa and Serbia right after. Since you looted Ottomans you can go up to 8k men to beat the Serbian army, since you have Skanderbeg it should be pretty consistent.
Nice part about this is you can secure Kosovo gold without ever taking a loan. You're still small enough to join the HRE. I prefer taking Lika than Dalmatia though, Hungary is far more hated and Austria + Venice are often friendly.
I prefer to convert to Orthodox ASAP (once you dow you can immediately accept Orthodox zealot demands). This means you're unlikely to ever get the emperorship but at least you aren't tanking 25+ unrest early in Serbia. Orthodox tolerance is extremely high as well, meaning you can manually lower autonomy without risking any revolts. It also allows lessens the pain of trucebreaking later when you feel like consuming Iberia.
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Albania without Albania is a bit strange. So if i somehow can hold that province, it would be nice. Surviving without giving Albania away isnt that difficult. Surviving is the most difficult part. After that, it becomes easy to expand. Austria and Poland will be your friend. So you can win almost all wars. Just some thoughs about expanding:
- Use Ragusa / Dalmantia (If Austria rivaled Venice you can easily destroy Venice) to jump into Italy.
- Join the HRE and try to become the emperor and pray that the Burgundian inheritence will fire (makes your immediately the strongest nation in the HRE and you can expand in Germay, UK and France).
- Defeating Hungary is easy with Poland and Austria as ally (they both will be your ally, no need for a diplo advisor, even if they are neutral). Both are likely to have Hungary as ally, so they will join. Note that Austria and Poland can have claims on Hungary. Try to siege these provinces. They will transfer occupation of all other provinces to you.
- After some time, you can beat the Ottomans, and take back Albania.
I'm surprised no one has-mentioned East Frisia yet. They are a OPM with no friends that I use for all my scapegoat needs. You can conquer them easily (despite their location, they are NOT part of the HRE), and then move on from there.
You're not going to get mil access easily if you no-CB East Frisia. I haven't yet seen an AoW exodus strategy that works, much less works better than the "standard" Bosnian ones.
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Travelling time to East Frisia is way to long to beat the Ottomans for the siege. You MUST siege some province before the siege your province.
The first few years are very difficult, but if you survive, then you can expand rather fast.
Of course, you play ironman on normal difficulty. Recruit merc, DOW no CB on Bosnia, assign Skenderbeg to lead your army, scorch earth in Albania, get MA through Serbia, crush Bosnian army, siege Donji Kraj, get MA through Hungary, get MA from Austria, cancel MA from Serbia, start improving relations with Austria, take your merc and go loot Ottoman provinces, all the way to Thessaly. If you manage to get enough WS on Bosnia to vassalize them and to take Donji Kraj do it, start to core Donji Kraj and increase autonomy (why? because when you give Albania to Ottomans it will automatically become your capital with 0% LA, and by increasing LA you get rid of unrest).
In 9 of 10 attempts Serbia DoW on Bosnia and Bosnia give MA to Ottomans, wait for peace between Serbia and Bosnia, if Ottomans arrive in Bosnia go hide in Austria and don't forget to loot Ottoman lands, you must because it is the only way to survive long war with Ottomans.
Of course, you play ironman on normal difficulty. Recruit merc, DOW no CB on Bosnia, assign Skenderbeg to lead your army, scorch earth in Albania, get MA through Serbia, crush Bosnian army, siege Donji Kraj, get MA through Hungary, get MA from Austria, cancel MA from Serbia, start improving relations with Austria, take your merc and go loot Ottoman provinces, all the way to Thessaly. If you manage to get enough WS on Bosnia to vassalize them and to take Donji Kraj do it, start to core Donji Kraj and increase autonomy (why? because when you give Albania to Ottomans it will automatically become your capital with 0% LA, and by increasing LA you get rid of unrest).
In 9 of 10 attempts Serbia DoW on Bosnia and Bosnia give MA to Ottomans, wait for peace between Serbia and Bosnia, if Ottomans arrive in Bosnia go hide in Austria and don't forget to loot Ottoman lands, you must because it is the only way to survive long war with Ottomans.