The wiki says custom Kingdoms can be created if you have either 35 holdings or 3 duchy titles, but other places I've read it only requires two duchy titles. I'm wondering though if those duchy titles can be titular?
Can a custom Kingdom be created from only titular Duchies?
- Thread starter Nerva
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Yes, they can. All of them can be titular, there's no specific requirement for them to be de jure.
I haven't read up on that in a while, but I think that the 3-duchy requirement is vanilla (which makes Brittany, which has only two de jure duchies, a bit more difficult), and the 2-duchy requirement is a feature of certain mods.
Also, for creating custom empires, the kingdom titles cannot be titular.
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You need three duchy titles or a realm size of 35 to create a custom kingdom. The titles may be titular.
To create a de jure kingdom, you only need two duchy titles, but you also need 200 piety and 51% of the de jure land, which may or may not be easier to get than 1000 prestige. Brittany had one duchy before Holy Fury (It has three now), so to form the kingdom, you used to need another duchy somewhere.
To create a de jure kingdom, you only need two duchy titles, but you also need 200 piety and 51% of the de jure land, which may or may not be easier to get than 1000 prestige. Brittany had one duchy before Holy Fury (It has three now), so to form the kingdom, you used to need another duchy somewhere.
So, if I were playing as Byzantium, and I created a Merchant Republic in Nikea (which would choose Nikomedia as its capital instead of the default inland province), then destroy the MR's of Amalfi and Venice, and gave both of their titles (Amalfi's being titular) to my Merchant Republic, would I also have to destroy the Kingdom of Venice title in order for my MR in Nikea to make a custom Kingdom title for itself?
Also, are there other titular Duchy titles I could snag in the game besides Amalfi?
And... this is a weird order to ask this, but is there really any advantage for having a King-tier MR vassal instead of just a Duchy? The main thing I can think of is if I create a MR using my own dynasty, the King-tier will contribute more to the dynasty's prestige. But are there any other advantages?
Also, are there other titular Duchy titles I could snag in the game besides Amalfi?
And... this is a weird order to ask this, but is there really any advantage for having a King-tier MR vassal instead of just a Duchy? The main thing I can think of is if I create a MR using my own dynasty, the King-tier will contribute more to the dynasty's prestige. But are there any other advantages?
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Nerva,
Another reason for trying to get your MRs upgraded to kingdom-tiersis that when your empire growls large enough that you *have* to start handing out kingdom vice-royalties to vassals, any duchy-tier MR within a de jure kingdom that you give to a vassal becomes a vassal of the new viceroy, rather than you direct vassal. However, if the MR already holds a kingdom title, it will remain your direct vassal.
At the same time, in such a situation, if the empire's laws allow vassals to attack one another, then eventually said viceroy will launch a claim war against the MR ... and destroy it when he conquers it. So, this requires some fore-thought.
Also, in my experience, when a MR based on a titular duchy title gets a kingdom title, they destroy the titular duchy title. I've not seen a MR based on a de jure duchy title destroy the duchy title after acquiring a kingdom title.
When I play as BYZ (generally from the 769 start), I like to holy war for Famagusta (Cyprus) and set-up a spare son there as a MR. Cyprus is just a 2 county duchy, so there isn't a great loss of feudal vassals. Plus, there are a lot of counties in the immediate sea-zones (allowing for the ME to have more lucrative trade centers). And (unless it's a feature of the CK2+ mod I use), Cyprus has a kingdom title attached to it.
Another reason for trying to get your MRs upgraded to kingdom-tiersis that when your empire growls large enough that you *have* to start handing out kingdom vice-royalties to vassals, any duchy-tier MR within a de jure kingdom that you give to a vassal becomes a vassal of the new viceroy, rather than you direct vassal. However, if the MR already holds a kingdom title, it will remain your direct vassal.
At the same time, in such a situation, if the empire's laws allow vassals to attack one another, then eventually said viceroy will launch a claim war against the MR ... and destroy it when he conquers it. So, this requires some fore-thought.
Also, in my experience, when a MR based on a titular duchy title gets a kingdom title, they destroy the titular duchy title. I've not seen a MR based on a de jure duchy title destroy the duchy title after acquiring a kingdom title.
When I play as BYZ (generally from the 769 start), I like to holy war for Famagusta (Cyprus) and set-up a spare son there as a MR. Cyprus is just a 2 county duchy, so there isn't a great loss of feudal vassals. Plus, there are a lot of counties in the immediate sea-zones (allowing for the ME to have more lucrative trade centers). And (unless it's a feature of the CK2+ mod I use), Cyprus has a kingdom title attached to it.
One interesting quirk with creating a custom kingdom is that it impacts the empire de jure territory. Most of the time this doesn't matter beyond the new kingdom and all de jure land being put into the duchy's de jure empire... Except that a number of titular titles, particularly the titles of religious heads, don't belong to any de jure structure. This means if you create a kingdom with your primary title being a Sultan's title or the head of a reformed pagan religion, the resulting kingdom won't belong to any de jure empire.