Perhaps recon / AC brigades could work a bit like Axis recon attachments in Unity of Command, automatically capturing vacant enemy areas adjacent to the division they're attached to after a period of time. Sort of a cartographic paint crew.
Campaign to bring back ARMOURED CARS!!!
- Thread starter LostinSpice
- Start date
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Their game to make, so let them do what they feel is the best for it and us. Sometime a community can ruin an entire game by saying stuff they want, and the dev's just putting all of it into the game.
- 10
Recon upgrades maybe are armored cars or can be model to show armored cars. There were far to many to leave out.
I think all units (both main & support) should need equipment!
- 2
I'd be very surprised (and we may even have been told, but head's very hazy) that recon (at least later on) may require a certain amount of motorised or mechanised equipment. I can't imagine in a game where we're building infantry equipment and arty/AT guns, that armoured cars would magically appear.
I'd personally be in favour of having armoured cars specifically in the game - there were substantial differences in design and performance, from what were lightly armoured scout cars, from the 'almost a light tank with tyres' Puma to the 'small and obvious for recon' Daimler Dingo. That said, I'd also understand if this was a level of detail too far for the devs vision, and as long as we can tweak the equipment requirements of a recon battalion to include actual ACs, and mod ACs into the game (and the AI can cope with however it works), then I'm all smiles
.
Some panzer divisions had 60 armoured cars in them at the start of the war. So if you have 10 panzer divisions then 600 armoured cars is a worthy production line. Yes they are similar to light tanks but in game they perform a much different function. My argument is if I have to produce infantry guns and a truck why aren't I making armoured cars as well?
** I knew this subject would swing folks either way and it's fine - everyone is correct in their opinions here and at least it gives us something to write about until the game is released! **
** I knew this subject would swing folks either way and it's fine - everyone is correct in their opinions here and at least it gives us something to write about until the game is released! **
Yeah assuming we can mod models and add techs and such to them....we really have our work cut out for us.
I know personally ill be working pretty much right out of the gates, to add every 'frame' I can think of and find some sort of information on (and because SPRITES!! I can actually make some neat placard art).
Im sure theyll circumvent alot of this stuff with numerous DLCs, but I know theres a demand for ICE/Black ICE like detail.
Dont worry, your 232 clown cars and Greyhounds with 105mms will be a thing, if we can mod.
I know personally ill be working pretty much right out of the gates, to add every 'frame' I can think of and find some sort of information on (and because SPRITES!! I can actually make some neat placard art).
Im sure theyll circumvent alot of this stuff with numerous DLCs, but I know theres a demand for ICE/Black ICE like detail.
Dont worry, your 232 clown cars and Greyhounds with 105mms will be a thing, if we can mod.
Absolutely. Those things are absolutely hilarious in vehicle sims. WWIIOnline was especially fun to drive around in at 40kph mowing people down with the 20mm and 9mm mgs. Brings the Benny Hill theme to mind.
Come here little Panhard.
Which are also rad little ACs
I mean this thing is pretty immune to ATRs and rifle fire. Just one of them is more powerful than an entire infantry company. It would be a little silly to not have these things in the game. A handful can completely alter the outcome of a battle.
Come here little Panhard.
Which are also rad little ACs
I mean this thing is pretty immune to ATRs and rifle fire. Just one of them is more powerful than an entire infantry company. It would be a little silly to not have these things in the game. A handful can completely alter the outcome of a battle.
Not so sure since even a light AT gun like Pak 36 or a 20mm rifle/cannon can easily scrap them. Not uncommon weapon in even the crappiest infantry.Absolutely. Those things are absolutely hilarious in vehicle sims. WWIIOnline was especially fun to drive around in at 40kph mowing people down with the 20mm and 9mm mgs. Brings the Benny Hill theme to mind.
Come here little Panhard.
Which are also rad little ACs
I mean this thing is pretty immune to ATRs and rifle fire. Just one of them is more powerful than an entire infantry company. It would be a little silly to not have these things in the game. A handful can completely alter the outcome of a battle.
Maybe recon should have the option/distinction to be motorized or mecanized to simulete the use of armored car end motocycle (whitout one should bè bicycle horse or foot).
No new tech tree end complex meccanic but much more flawor. One can chose to produce some Mechanized (Arnored car end universal carrier) infantry for recon porpuse even if dont use it in main combat brigade.
Last edited:
Why do you need ac as a seperate unit?
Are ACs not allready part of mechanized brigades/divisions and light tank brigades/divisions?
Is it just for flavor or is there a role you cant cover with light tanks or mechanized inf?
Not trolling, just questioning!
Are ACs not allready part of mechanized brigades/divisions and light tank brigades/divisions?
Is it just for flavor or is there a role you cant cover with light tanks or mechanized inf?
Not trolling, just questioning!
You're right- while it's a little tougher to dodge in 4 since you're building "individual" pieces of equipment for your units, it's just as easy to handwave ACs into any number of things as it is to say that obviously you're supplying jeeps to your divisions as well, even though there's no jeep production line.
Theyre pretty hard to hit. From the Pak36s ive used in sims, and taking at look at them at museums, id imagine a Panhard is pretty darned hard to tag. Plus a Pak36 without APHE, will just go right through. If it doesnt hit a crew member, or the ammo with spall or the shell itself, its not going to stop it. Ive read accounts to the same effect. Meanwhile, it can return fire with a pretty accurate MG being mounted (no recoil), and spray down an ATG. The gunshield is pretty easily penetrated, if you can spot the ATG.
The advantage to an armored car over a light tank or mechanized infantry is cost, road and off road ability. A Panhard is a contemporary of the Pz1 and 2. Its twice as fast offroad. Has the same or better firepower. Has mostly the same armor other than frontally, but is half the cost per unit. Mechanized infantry, true mechanized infantry, is 3-4 years later in technology and operational doctrine. An Sdkfz 251 is going to lose big time against an armored car, and its infantry squad, even with later weaponry like PIATs, Panzerfausts etc, are going to have some serious problems dismounting, then taking on something that already has a bearing on them.
From the sim that had the video I posted. It was pretty easy to get the advantage on a Panzer I, Panzer IIc, Panzer IIIf, and Stug IIIb. Youre faster. Youre smaller. You have a 37mm gun that is just as good as the Pz38(t) (which is your nemesis) L.70 and you have the better offroad ability and higher mounted gun allowing you to remain hull down and keeping everything but your commander/gunner safe.
So what can an AC do that a light tank cant? Change positions rapidly. Adapt to more situations. You get more for the same cost. Fills all the roles a light tank would in addition to what it does better.
And I totally didnt think it was a troll. Thats a legitimate question.
Sorry this is also what I was replying too.
A Boyes rifle actually cant penetrate a Panhard at more than 100 yards. Nor could the German ATR.
Went over that endlessly in WWIIOL/Battleground Europe. They just lack the punch.
If you could get behind one, and under 100 yards, you could take out the engine block/ammo. But thats a heck of a shot to make, even if you can get in position.
The difference in AC recon, is that if AC recon spots something it can kill, it can kill it. Your recon can become an attack. Whereas foot recon, horse, aircraft, and motorcycle, all you can do is report it. If youre in an AC, and you recon a group of soldiers loading into trucks, you can attack. You dont need support. Theres numerous occurrences of this in Fall Weiss and Barbarossa. As well as in China. An AC can exploit their own recon.
I gotta admit this will probably be the first thing I mod (I cant expect paradox to spend that much time on ACs, I just really cant, the games too big to worry about this with release bearing down on them).
I just cant imagine Cavalry divisions without AC brigades. Or Mechanized/Motorized without them. Or French Heavy Armor Brigades without them.
I want my Clown Cars.
Another thing to mod.
Theres quite a few of us that, ideally, will want to have a production line for every piece of equipment used by that nation in reality at least available to the player. From your obscure, to your more obvious.
- 1
the fundamental issue with the usage of recon cars is that they will mean a whole new production line in the game which would require management. then once you add in recon cars what's next; different types of artillery - at guns - aa guns , light , medium, heavy bombers. with every new unit there is another factory that needs to run and for many nations in the game it would be way to hard to keep swapping production on and off recon cars. this would leave only a few nations making them efficiently being the usa, Germany and Ussr since they would have enough units to dedicate a whole production line to them.
I want armored cars but maybe their battalions can by modeled with a combination of vehicles and not need a new vehicle and a new production line.
I want armored cars but maybe their battalions can by modeled with a combination of vehicles and not need a new vehicle and a new production line.
- 1
Exactly. For vanilla there should not be too much micro.
- 2
Indeed, and so it does seem rather odd that the developers even sought to pursue the mechanic of building individual equipment, when the overall design goal is as little of such things as possible.
That said, at least i am thankful they did, and if the UI is both visually and funtionally moddable, say allowing for many more concurrent production lines without a prohibiting interface, there's really no problem at all. A simpler base game with mods being able to delve as deep as they please into the ww2 representation is a good thing.
- 1
Id like, if its possible to mod in everything.
This is 1942, so you can see Panzer IIc production has stopped, but theres 283 in the pool.
Panzer IIfs are 5 a week.
IL Lynx's are 3 a week.
PzIIIj is 21 a week.
PzIIIH has halted production, none in pool.
38(t) is imported, however none in pool (player must be terrible lol)
IVg is 30 a week, 20 in pool
Panther D is just starting production 4 a week.
Panther A is 5 a week.
IIIj L.42, 22 a week.
Tiger I, 1 a week.
Theres theres about 40 more land vehicles.
Ideally, in any modding I do. All of these are going to have their own production lines, and hopefully match reality as closely as possible.
EDIT:
Wow this is a terrible WITE player. Its 1942 and he has 40% German production efficiency, because of his lack of armaments. Most of these numbers of production arent even being met
He must have had a terrible time with Barbarossa.
Heres a more complete list of ground vehicle models in the losses screen.
Thats pretty much exactly what I want my HOI4 production screen to look like. Its going to be some serious mod work. But fortunately im retired.
This is 1942, so you can see Panzer IIc production has stopped, but theres 283 in the pool.
Panzer IIfs are 5 a week.
IL Lynx's are 3 a week.
PzIIIj is 21 a week.
PzIIIH has halted production, none in pool.
38(t) is imported, however none in pool (player must be terrible lol)
IVg is 30 a week, 20 in pool
Panther D is just starting production 4 a week.
Panther A is 5 a week.
IIIj L.42, 22 a week.
Tiger I, 1 a week.
Theres theres about 40 more land vehicles.
Ideally, in any modding I do. All of these are going to have their own production lines, and hopefully match reality as closely as possible.
EDIT:
Wow this is a terrible WITE player. Its 1942 and he has 40% German production efficiency, because of his lack of armaments. Most of these numbers of production arent even being met
He must have had a terrible time with Barbarossa.
Heres a more complete list of ground vehicle models in the losses screen.
Thats pretty much exactly what I want my HOI4 production screen to look like. Its going to be some serious mod work. But fortunately im retired.
Last edited:
- 3