Calling allies anytime now?

[ultrapowerpie]

So I'm attempting to take out France as Castile during the HYW. Long story short, Hungry and the Papcy ally France, and they're called in instantly... like, years after my war started. Is the 60 day thing no longer there? I didn't see it in the patch notes (unless I somehow missed @-@), or is this a glitch? I really hope it is, otherwise this means that little states can try to suck up to the major powers and call them in the middle of the war and basically screw with things >.>

 

[darianstarfire]

So I'm attempting to take out France as Castile during the HYW. Long story short, Hungry and the Papcy ally France, and they're called in instantly... like, years after my war started. Is the 60 day thing no longer there? I didn't see it in the patch notes (unless I somehow missed @-@), or is this a glitch? I really hope it is, otherwise this means that little states can try to suck up to the major powers and call them in the middle of the war and basically screw with things >.>

Happening to me right now too. I can call Portugal but I can't ally or call anyone else. France on the otherhand, was able to ally and call three other nations. It feels like a bug to me or perhaps something the defender can do. It's also possible they made it harder for England since they received so much more income per month.

 

[ultrapowerpie]

No this is me being Castile in a separate war... I also noticed this on an Aztec run where a little TPM called ina bigger nation they allied later.

Also when I ally with France as Venice earlier, I got called into the HYW (different run).

Glad I'm not the only person experiencing this XD

 

[Xara]

The 60 day thing is totally gone. Makes things much more dangerous, since even playing the "can't be in two wars on opposite sides" cards can backfire now, if one war ends, your offensive ally can still be called in against you in the defensive war.

Have to pay close attention to who tends to ally who early on. No more day 0 dow'ing Urbino and hoping Aragon doesn't join. Well, you can still hope, but...

On the plus side, you can still use it offensively, if you had allies that didn't want to join at war start but recovered their manpower / money and are willing to join later.

 

[ldevarga]

So I'm attempting to take out France as Castile during the HYW. Long story short, Hungry and the Papcy ally France, and they're called in instantly... like, years after my war started. Is the 60 day thing no longer there? I didn't see it in the patch notes (unless I somehow missed @-@), or is this a glitch? I really hope it is, otherwise this means that little states can try to suck up to the major powers and call them in the middle of the war and basically screw with things >.>

Yes the 60 days requirement is gone, replaced with something along the lines of "If you're winning your allies will join, if not they wont" I think it's 25% warscore and they'll join.

 

[ultrapowerpie]

Uh, really? Cause I was beating the pants off of France with Burgandy as Castile and Portugal (new run), then late into the war (where I have 10% on the war meter, they have like 18 WE), they call in ARagon and suddenly the "strength of their alliances" skyrockets and wont' negotiate anymore...

So they really got rid of that, completely? Meaning all possible chances of crippling France early on are now gone unless I make sure Aragon is an ally instead? That's... somewhat sad that we can't even rely on stability. Especially since all these allies magically pop up while the war is ongoing and just jump in...

Can there at least be some sort of time limit... something? This really is concerning... on many levels.

 

[ldevarga]

Uh, really? Cause I was beating the pants off of France with Burgandy as Castile and Portugal (new run), then late into the war (where I have 10% on the war meter, they have like 18 WE), they call in ARagon and suddenly the "strength of their alliances" skyrockets and wont' negotiate anymore...

So they really got rid of that, completely? Meaning all possible chances of crippling France early on are now gone unless I make sure Aragon is an ally instead? That's... somewhat sad that we can't even rely on stability. Especially since all these allies magically pop up while the war is ongoing and just jump in...

Can there at least be some sort of time limit... something? This really is concerning... on many levels.

Oh, I must be mistaken then. What I said was what seemed to be happening in my games. Perhaps there are other factors as well (how strong said ally is, trust, etc)?

 

[ultrapowerpie]

I don't know... all I know is that first I see that Aragon has allied France. A few more days they're called into the war with fresh troops... which is complete Bull because my troops are worn down, theirs are worn down... and thus France is now even mightier then before because even against a targeted assault at their weakest, the AI is more then capable of scrambling for fresh country's troops.

I don't mean to complain, and I see the advantages of this, but the fact that Half of Iberia, Burgandy and England (in a seperate war I'll admit) can't beat France because they can scramble for a last minute ally (and no one else will want to attack France casue it's France)... I'm concerned. And also concerned when a tiny country allies a major power, calls them in, and then it's game over for you if you yourself aren't one (Example, HRE dispute, someone allies Austria/France, calls them in, you suddenly find the war lost completely because the new mechanics require you to beat the ally as well)...

 

[ldevarga]

I don't know... all I know is that first I see that Aragon has allied France. A few more days they're called into the war with fresh troops... which is complete Bull because my troops are worn down, theirs are worn down... and thus France is now even mightier then before because even against a targeted assault at their weakest, the AI is more then capable of scrambling for fresh country's troops.

I don't mean to complain, and I see the advantages of this, but the fact that Half of Iberia, Burgandy and England (in a seperate war I'll admit) can't beat France because they can scramble for a last minute ally (and no one else will want to attack France casue it's France)... I'm concerned. And also concerned when a tiny country allies a major power, calls them in, and then it's game over for you if you yourself aren't one (Example, HRE dispute, someone allies Austria/France, calls them in, you suddenly find the war lost completely because the new mechanics require you to beat the ally as well)...

If you're not playing ironman, and you have a save from before they call aragon to arms, tag switch to France, go to call aragon in and check what modifiers are active.

 

[ultrapowerpie]

It was an Ironman game... XD

I'll admit that Aragon WAS a rival, but that point is moot cause in a previous run it was the Papacy the French called in (admittingly Burgundy had left the war but the French were at 20 WE and were still loosing for at like 10% to me), so I have no idea what is causing this issue.

 

[ldevarga]

It was an Ironman game... XD

I'll admit that Aragon WAS a rival, but that point is moot cause in a previous run it was the Papacy the French called in (admittingly Burgundy had left the war but the French were at 20 WE and were still loosing for at like 10% to me), so I have no idea what is causing this issue.

I think I'll have to some experimenting then, cause I would like to know myself. Not sure I'd call it an issue yet, though the pope saying yes at that point does sound well, brave .
Wait, isn't england the attacker in the HYW start? that probably helps the french calling people in. I'll go check.

 

[ultrapowerpie]

No, see, the thing is this:

England/France in HYW, England sometimes calls in Portugal.

Plan is to claim one of France's provinces, ally Burgundy and then double-slam them with that.

So yes I AM the agressor here, but at the same time, why the hell would the Papacy, years after this new war I created has raged, join in?

 

[ldevarga]

it being a defensive war gives france +30 to call it's allies in, so by the 13 of december I'd allied aragon and called them in. Don't know about france in a terrible state calling them in yet. I guess I'll have to go lose the HYW as france to find out .

 

[ultrapowerpie]

+30... greaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat...

I guess I can see Aragon coming in since they hate me, but the Papacy is a mystery.

In the last game England managed to white peace France while my second war was raging, and France definately had 19 WE with no manpower... so they were in pretty dire straights (yet of course no rebels but that's another matter)

 

[Xara]

"If you're winning your allies will join, if not they wont" I think it's 25% warscore and they'll join.

No, that's not true.

There is a big penalty to calling in an ally if you are losing the war (-25% or lower). Above that, they will respond absolutely the same if the war is at 0% or at 100%, whether it started a day ago or five years.

Can there at least be some sort of time limit... something?

That's what it used to be. That is no longer the case. That makes attacking more dangerous. You've just got to take it into account.

Defending nations get little to no penalty for forming alliances while at war. Nations that started a war do, by -1000 per war.

why the hell would the Papacy, years after this new war I created has raged, join in?

Because they just allied and there's no penalty on time anymore. Defensive wars are a + to joining.

Both sides can call fresh allies in at any point - the aggressors just won't be able to form new allies.

 

[chrnno]

That explains what happened earlier in my England try. I couldn't ally anyone nor even call Portugal into the war while France kept allying countries and calling them in. So many added troops meant even doing very well and lucky it took nine years for me to get into the point I could really be aggressive to finish stack wiping all of France + Vassals troops and Portugal even decided to finally agree to join so would make it even easier to do. Then War of the Roses happens. Took six years to deal with that and force the union upon France.

 

[Viperswhip]

Ya, it's a bit wonky now, it feels like the AI doesn't suffer the same penalty for getting new allies while at war as the player does. Then the AI can call seemingly everyone into war, even when they are losing big time. Basically, once you are strong enough to fight off the Ottos, don't ally Poland, they will call you constantly.

 

[ultrapowerpie]

That's... really not good. I guess I can understand why they removed it, but right now it looks like it's just too easy for the defender to (France) to call in whoever.

 

[Viperswhip]

That's... really not good. I guess I can understand why they removed it, but right now it looks like it's just too easy for the defender to (France) to call in whoever.

The papacy coming in is amazing as having the papal states as a vassal (yes, some major AE, but ally Austria and they won't care), means you can stay at 200 relations all the time very easily. This is a big blessing to you, with the downside that you can't kill Aragon's prestige or you risk them not having Naples under a PU anymore when the Wedding fires. On the other hand...you could feed that territory to your new Papal vassal...