As the AOW raised the problem of the Europe vs. ROTW problem again....
I again call for different speed penalty for the three catalog.... as this is how it should works...
Here's my new proposal:
What is the advantage of a western power in history:
Military: comes from learning from the Muslim and Mongols in the begining then got tons of innovation thans to the constant conflict between all the European nations. More importantly, the Western is more willing to use gun powders.
Trade and the Quest for the new World (Diplomat): comes from the trade (espatially see route trades) tradition perhapes coming from the mediterranean sea and the fact that you have to find a sea route to avoid the Muslim blockage. This is really what the ROTW missing: ROTW except the Indean Sea nations do not have a sea trade tradition and the Indean Sea nations do not have a reason to explore at that era...
Adm: Does europe really have higher administration or production efficiency than the ROTW other than the tribes? Not until the Glorious Revolution at least for the admin and not until the industral revolution for the production. And those changes should thanks the the birth of the capitalism which actully should fall into the dip category.
Thus, a correct model to this situation to my opinion is different mechanism for the three category !
1 military: a nation should have a bonus when it have enough potential rivals. The bonus should be larger for the western to model their willing to develop new weapon/tactics and their willing to use new fire toys. In this way:
Western: large bonus from rivals, high bonus => fast speed, large nations lacking rivals can learn from neibours.
Eastern: high bonus but less rivals => slower
Muslim: median bonus median numbers of rivals => slower
India: low bonus high numbers of rivals -> somehow comparible to muslim but slower
Chinese: median bonus low number -> balanced to almost same to India, Japan will have high rivals so their military tech will be faster yet cannot get a decisive advantage against Ming or Korea as they are the same group.
Nomad: very low bonus median numbers of rivals => even slower, but should be compansate from traditions to make them stronger.
Sub-Saharian: low bonus, median number, slightly slower than India and Chinese
New-World: no bunus at all, they don't know gun powder yet.
Of course, the mechanism can be implement in a way that is different penalties instead of bonus.
2 diplomat: This is the place where the europe should have hard coded advantage to model their tradition. Dip tech should be related to the LA you can achieve for conquered areas: exactly the reason why ROTW did not expand as the west europe.
3 Admin: to model the production part: only sub saharian, new world and nomad should got penalty to model the fact that the Jungle, Desert and Cold weather (and lack of horse as well perhapes) stopped them from developing better prodcution methods. To model the admin part: Some new government types should be available only when both admin and dip level (to model the push from the capitalism) or even mil level (to model the greatly increased possibility for the capitalists or the people to gain power from the nobels after the developmnt of the firearms) reached certain level so that only european, the most balanced tech group can get them first.
As for the ideas, there should be some kind of limitation on the numbers of idea in each catagory you can get. Such as the western tech group has bonus on dib ideas or something like that.
In general. tech group should limit the ROTW from expanding as crazy as the west europe unless they westernize. The tech group should limit military less than the diplomat limitation, and the admin limitation should only apply on places where mankind cannot do argricultual properly. And the advanced government form that really makes west west, should come relatively later and should be given to those countries that balanced developed all three category (western country or those who achieved balanced development).
Discuss!
I again call for different speed penalty for the three catalog.... as this is how it should works...
Here's my new proposal:
What is the advantage of a western power in history:
Military: comes from learning from the Muslim and Mongols in the begining then got tons of innovation thans to the constant conflict between all the European nations. More importantly, the Western is more willing to use gun powders.
Trade and the Quest for the new World (Diplomat): comes from the trade (espatially see route trades) tradition perhapes coming from the mediterranean sea and the fact that you have to find a sea route to avoid the Muslim blockage. This is really what the ROTW missing: ROTW except the Indean Sea nations do not have a sea trade tradition and the Indean Sea nations do not have a reason to explore at that era...
Adm: Does europe really have higher administration or production efficiency than the ROTW other than the tribes? Not until the Glorious Revolution at least for the admin and not until the industral revolution for the production. And those changes should thanks the the birth of the capitalism which actully should fall into the dip category.
Thus, a correct model to this situation to my opinion is different mechanism for the three category !
1 military: a nation should have a bonus when it have enough potential rivals. The bonus should be larger for the western to model their willing to develop new weapon/tactics and their willing to use new fire toys. In this way:
Western: large bonus from rivals, high bonus => fast speed, large nations lacking rivals can learn from neibours.
Eastern: high bonus but less rivals => slower
Muslim: median bonus median numbers of rivals => slower
India: low bonus high numbers of rivals -> somehow comparible to muslim but slower
Chinese: median bonus low number -> balanced to almost same to India, Japan will have high rivals so their military tech will be faster yet cannot get a decisive advantage against Ming or Korea as they are the same group.
Nomad: very low bonus median numbers of rivals => even slower, but should be compansate from traditions to make them stronger.
Sub-Saharian: low bonus, median number, slightly slower than India and Chinese
New-World: no bunus at all, they don't know gun powder yet.
Of course, the mechanism can be implement in a way that is different penalties instead of bonus.
2 diplomat: This is the place where the europe should have hard coded advantage to model their tradition. Dip tech should be related to the LA you can achieve for conquered areas: exactly the reason why ROTW did not expand as the west europe.
3 Admin: to model the production part: only sub saharian, new world and nomad should got penalty to model the fact that the Jungle, Desert and Cold weather (and lack of horse as well perhapes) stopped them from developing better prodcution methods. To model the admin part: Some new government types should be available only when both admin and dip level (to model the push from the capitalism) or even mil level (to model the greatly increased possibility for the capitalists or the people to gain power from the nobels after the developmnt of the firearms) reached certain level so that only european, the most balanced tech group can get them first.
As for the ideas, there should be some kind of limitation on the numbers of idea in each catagory you can get. Such as the western tech group has bonus on dib ideas or something like that.
In general. tech group should limit the ROTW from expanding as crazy as the west europe unless they westernize. The tech group should limit military less than the diplomat limitation, and the admin limitation should only apply on places where mankind cannot do argricultual properly. And the advanced government form that really makes west west, should come relatively later and should be given to those countries that balanced developed all three category (western country or those who achieved balanced development).
Discuss!
