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theKing1988

SWMH Autokrator
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Jan 13, 2010
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For anyone interested in helping me out with the prep-work for CK3, i could really use some help with North Caucasus. Paradox has really cut down the region to the absolute minimum. 7 provinces from Tmutarakan to Derbent, can't really get any more minimalistic.

I was thinking of adding some detail to the Eastern part if i can find some ressources. Durdzukia and Didoya were my own ideas. They would allow me to introduce a Nakh culture.

But any help, you guys can give me would help
 
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I've never really helped with mods and don't know how they work for the most part, so before I get to doing anything I would like to know how in depth this should be. Are broader strokes fine or do you need specific provinces, countries, towns, cultures, and so on? Either way, I've got way to much free time and I love history and maps, so I could probably dig up a few things if needed.
 
Baronies seems to be the main problem. I could introduce one-barony provinces for Didoya and Durdzukia just fine and use the tribe/clan as the only barony. But i would prefer it to have an extra barony.

But everything would be good, if you can find it. Cultures sort of has a lower bar they need to pass to get included. At least 3 provinces. But Avar, Nakh, Alan, Kasog/Circassian wouldn't be too bad of a setup for the North Caucasus
 
I'll get back to you by Monday or Tuesday most likely. From a very small search it seems that there are a ton of sources for everything south of the Caucasus Mountains but very few informative sources for the anything North, except maybe some stuff on Derbent. I'll see if I can find any settlements and so on that can serve as baronies for the more remote sections of the North Caucasus.
 
Disregard my previous comment about Tuesday, I'm probably going to need another day or 2 to get everything together and organized, as well as research a bit more about some of the regions. Sorry about that.
 
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First of all, I would like to say that I really enjoy paradox games and I'm thankful to paradox studios, and I know many non-Caucasians will not relate to what I write, but this is not meant for disrespect, sorry if I sound rude in any way.

But I must, as a fellow Adyghe (Circassian), say, that in almost every paradox game, the Caucasus is wrong and it always bugged me (I even made a EU4 mod aiming to improve the Caucasus). I don't blame Paradox here, it is an insignificant region compared to other regions, but I personally have met a lot of Circassians, Chechens, Georgians, Dagestanians, etc. that play and LOVE these games, and, to give an example from EU4, seeing the Chechen medieval states of Durdzuketia and Simsir not existing and simply replaced by Avaria, who are a smaller ethnic group who was not even a state in Chechen region is frustrating.

We are not asking paradox for anything huge like custom events and extremely detailed provinces. All we want is, excuse me because this will sound a little bit rude, not getting everything wrong. All we want are names of our historical countries represented with their correct leader.

I know many will say "Well, show a source that isn't Wikipedia!" we can, and I have given sources to people that say this on many occasions, and they simply say "This is not a trustworthy source!" and I am sorry to inform, that is what Caucasus history is about. There are no Oxford articles about our history. It's mostly old books, written by people who have visited the Caucasus, or based on writings of several neighbors. Caucasian history, especially Circassian and Chechen, is mostly a mystery, and underexamined. But I assure you, trusting sources we can find that say Inal Nekhu, who is a very famous prince, was the leader of Circassia around 1444 is more trustworthy than whoever this made-up "Petrozok Petrozok" person is (I have been told by a friend that he was a prince of Zichia, A Circassian-Abkhazian princedom that is not related to 1444).

Thanks for reading.
 
Ibn masudi visited Caucasus in that time period. he said kashaks (kassogs, an old tribe of circassians ) lived from the Caucasus to black sea, west of alans but northern border was big river, so im guessing its kuban. so northern border is kuban river. eastern border with alans unclear.

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Ibn masudi visited Caucasus in that time period. he said kashaks (kassogs, an old tribe of circassians ) lived from the Caucasus to black sea, west of alans but northern border was big river, so im guessing its kuban. so northern border is kuban river. eastern border with alans unclear.

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Nice to see an actual Caucasian helping with this. I've had some trouble actually doing research because most of the sources are in foreign languages I have no experience with, which makes it pretty tough to do anything. I also had a close relative die recently, and than moved 4 states away from where I was living, so I've had a pretty bad, and busy, last few months. I've still got my sources and a bunch of other stuff, or if you want we could split the work down the middle. Sadly, as you said, most of the sources are from foreigners visiting the Caucasus and are unreliable, but I've got a few good canidates for possible bronies in the current day chechen and ingushetia region, mostly because there are alot of abandoned towers and castles in the area. I know that there is 1, the name of which I cannot remember of the top of my head, that should most certainly be included, but the borders still need to be more defined. I was thinking of mostly using rivers/valleys for that. For other stuff, I've also done some research on Circassia, and honestly, I think the best option would be to divide it based on the Kuban River and its tributaries. If you want to get in touch over something more than a forum post just ask, and I can give you my discord or something. Again, I do have to apologize to the HIP team, I keep failing to do it promptly.
 
First of all, you are welcome, secondly, rest in peace and blessings, and thirdly, I never really played CK2 or CK3, so I don't know much, but I would try my best to help with sources. My discord is Patlichan#6133 if you need it.
 
First of all thank you for responding to the thread. Always nice to see that i'm not the only one who finds both the North-Caucasus and the South-Caucasus to be extremely fascinating.

I haven't gotten to the Caucasus yet in my process of adapting SWMH to CK3. But i will be checking in periodically to see if you've given me anything to go on when i'm going to try improving the vanilla CK3 setup and to a smaller degree our own SWMH setup for CK2.
 
cultural clusterfuck time?

I kid, but it would be interesting to see how the cultures interact there. Has Svan been discussed, or Lezgian separate from Udi, or are a lot of these groups simply too small to consider?
 
The Udis are a Lezgic People too.

Lezgic is more of an umbrella term for a bunch of peoples speaking Lezgic.

If i were to introduce Svan i feel like i would need to COMPLETELY regionalize the Georgian Culture. I don't really have any excuse not to if i were to introduce a separate Svan culture. Mingrelian/Svan/Abkhaz/Kakhetian/Heretian etc. would be just as justified as the others. And i don't necessarily think its such a good idea.

My main thought is that it would be a good idea to make room for separating a Nakh Culture from the Avar Culture. The Avar Culture covers the areas of both in SWMH in CK2. Other than that, i hadn't really given much thought to other splits