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LlywelynII

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From the Texan thread:

I would be interested in hearing thoughts on the fate of California if Texas stays independent. It would have filled up with Americans quickly after gold was discovered and Mexico's grasp on it would have become tenuous. This might have started a chain of events leading to a Mexican-American war or a Californian war of independence.

California
Well, there already had been a series of revolts and civil wars in Mexican California. I'm not sure how well they're modeled atm since I haven't played Mexico, but ingame, sadly, right now, the gold rush events barely bring any immigrants to the place: as Texas, I got to 1860 and California was still mostly full of Indians and Mexicans. But for general flavor, I did try to annex it before then.

Historically, that was almost certainly out of the question. Even given breaks like a more competent Lamar and an early death for Houston, Texas would've been mostly occupied fortifying and raiding to keep the lines open between Santa Fe and Austin. Sadly, the most likely outcome would've been an American revolt followed by annexation to protect the new republic from Mexican reprisals, which would've been more forceful once they knew about the gold. Then Texas gradually accepts inevitable, being hemmed in by the US on both sides (Though possibly a southern manifest destiny, bringing civilization to the benighted Mehicans?) But the example of a successful and independent Texas possibly would've encouraged their own republic.

The real bone of contention becomes SoCal. A Bear Flag Republic should only control the Sacramento: the Southern Californios held their own against the US and actually repulsed the invasion of Baja. At some point, Texas is going to want a transcontinental rail and the port of San Diego.

(& I'm not sure exactly the mechanics involved, but I think that dividing California is generally a good idea. South of the Tehachapi was, for a long time, a different culture & place from the north. The US states aren't all represented precisely, and making Texas larger than California, aside from being gratifying, should make the immigration more sensible.)
 
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LlywelynII

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California in 1836
Had possibly 300 foreigners (mostly Yankee, Brit, & Hawaiian/Kanaka) in the entire country versus a c.5000 Mexicans and a few tens of thousands of Indians. San Diego should prolly have a few fewer people (say 250 Mexican workers for the province, 2250 Mission Indians.) LA maybe a bit more (maybe 1500 Mexican workers) after you add in the ranchos. There's an argument for limiting the numbers of Indians since they died off so quickly within a few years of game start (Although if people can find sources, possibly just start off large and then have the 1830s Miwok raids followed by the various American massacres.)

Anyway, even though the 1836 revolt depended on Isaac Graham's Yankee rifleros, Alvarado and the Diputacion were firmly in charge and there's no way the 1836 state should be (as it is right now) Yankee, Dixie culture with the Bear Flag. It'd be Mexican (events to add Yankee, maybe British later) and the California Lone Star Flag. It might be possible to fix this via event, but I'm not sure if it's possible to change the dominant culture like that.

It might be necessary to have a separate Alta California nation. It would be useful, in any case, since that would allow it to have a Catholic faith and a separate (and more Spanish) leader and unit list.

Doing so would also give the currently nonsensical "Secede California but Declare War" option in the Mexican event a real meaning: players who want to work with the Californios could opt for the satellite state option; that'd be Mexican Alta California. Players who want an early Bear Flag Republic might go for war & assume that the Yankees and some of the 20k+ Yanks aboard Pacific whalers land in support of Graham & co. The second one should involve racist parties that don't immediately assimilate the Californios, though, and piss them off a great deal. Both would have events rebelling from one to the other.
 
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Thanks for your continued work regarding America! :)

Regarding population: we need a minimum of at least 4000 people in order to be able to represent the POP set up in certain areas - 1 POP = 4 people, with 1000 POPs being the minimum unit in POP files (i.e. an entry of "1").

Regarding a seperate Alta California: we can change the state cultures, state religion and flag of California via event. Given the tag shortage it would also be better to just do this via event, rather than give another tag.

Liking the research! :)
 

LlywelynII

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@1 POP = 4 people
I'm sure I knew that at some point, but forgot: I just took them to represent working-age men, and so was calling for about 1/2 of listed population (eg above, the source gives San Diego county about 500 people.)

@1000 POPs being the minimum unit
I'm not sure I did know that. I suppose it's fine to round up instead of down with San Diego. Their leaders were rather important, esp. as they led the pro-Mexican party.

@Given the tag shortage
That's still an issue?

The big problem would be if you couldn't change the primary culture. Alta's should definitely be Mexican; Chuffy's should be American. If that's taken care of, the leader names and unit files aren't as a big a deal since there should be plenty of overlap. Alta depended on foreign officers and soldiers, and California allowed Californios to keep their position a lot longer than Texas did with the Tejanos.
 

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Yeah, we are able to change the accepted cultures no problem with events. With leaders we can have them set to be available at certain times and not others, thus meaning a Mexican-dominated Alta California would have Mexican generals, and a Yankee-dominated California having the Californian generals.

Shouldn't be too much of a problem! :)