Playing a non historical German game in TFH. Went to war Feb, 38' against just about everybody. Conquered Europe, except UK. UK has 4 CV's and 3 CVL's that just shread my fleets. I have 5 main fleets ( 3 BCx2 DDx3, 1 BBx2 DDx4, and cruiser fleet from start) I have a few mixed light cruisers with DD. I have over 75 air groups for cover. All my Tech's up to date mostly with some ahead. Its March of 39' and I've been getting torn up every time I leave French bases. On bright side I've intercepted every other ship UK try's to pass thru channel. Got 6 US BB and 3 CV's. Do I fire Raeder and Goring?
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only if you fire the guy that gives them their tools as well....
The answer to a CV fleet is average fleet speed. Once combat has started the average fleet speed determines the distance between the individual ships and since BB have a much shorter range than CV you will want to increase your average fleet speed in order to get your BB into shooting range. Even then you will need some luck and air cover will still help a lot. Think in fleets of 2 or 3 BB with 9 or 10 modern DD, or if you wish to make sure even more use 3 BB + 15 DD. Exchanging the BB with BC will offcourse help getting in range, though BC may not be able to sink the CVs quick enough and the enemy fleet may disengage meaning their CVs still survive...
If you have air superiority then doing port strikes with NAV or CAS will finish their fleets off.
The answer to a CV fleet is average fleet speed. Once combat has started the average fleet speed determines the distance between the individual ships and since BB have a much shorter range than CV you will want to increase your average fleet speed in order to get your BB into shooting range. Even then you will need some luck and air cover will still help a lot. Think in fleets of 2 or 3 BB with 9 or 10 modern DD, or if you wish to make sure even more use 3 BB + 15 DD. Exchanging the BB with BC will offcourse help getting in range, though BC may not be able to sink the CVs quick enough and the enemy fleet may disengage meaning their CVs still survive...
If you have air superiority then doing port strikes with NAV or CAS will finish their fleets off.
Thanks for the tips!
I'm also having this problem as Germany. The UK's Furious, Argus, Hermes, 3xDD flotilla and a transport are ruling the Skagerrak.
My ships, subs and 1x3 NAV can barely do anything to scratch them. I have been trying to keep 2x3 INT with air superiority over the sea battle, but the INT go rest and my ships get pounded.
I hope paradox has a better system in place for HoI4.
I'm also having this problem as Germany. The UK's Furious, Argus, Hermes, 3xDD flotilla and a transport are ruling the Skagerrak.
My ships, subs and 1x3 NAV can barely do anything to scratch them. I have been trying to keep 2x3 INT with air superiority over the sea battle, but the INT go rest and my ships get pounded.
I hope paradox has a better system in place for HoI4.
You can use land-based INT to beat up their CAGs. That won't really help until the CAGs are completely destroyed, unfortunately, because as long as they exist, the CV or CVL will "fire" them in place of guns and do full rated damage regardless of the condition of the planes. Once they're down, the CVs are all but toothless. You still need something that's fast enough to catch them, though.
In a semi-recent GER game, I managed to sink 11 UK BBs, 2 BCs, several CAs, and a swarm of escorts - all by the end of 1940 - (while I lost a CL, one or two DDs, and some subs), but never actually sunk a CV, although I did manage demolish a CVL, and pounded on one CV down to single digits of remaining Strength. Ultimately, the only way I could actually sink a CV was to port strike it, so I eventually ended up taking the cheaper alternative by sending an invasion force and occupying the UK. No more carrier threat.
In a semi-recent GER game, I managed to sink 11 UK BBs, 2 BCs, several CAs, and a swarm of escorts - all by the end of 1940 - (while I lost a CL, one or two DDs, and some subs), but never actually sunk a CV, although I did manage demolish a CVL, and pounded on one CV down to single digits of remaining Strength. Ultimately, the only way I could actually sink a CV was to port strike it, so I eventually ended up taking the cheaper alternative by sending an invasion force and occupying the UK. No more carrier threat.
Basically, CAGs and NAVs early game are pretty good at whittling down an attacking force because of how fast they are and how far away they tend to start engagements. It's better to have a LOT of screens than to have a lot of capital ships. For example something like 2-3 BBs or BCs + 10 or more of the newest DDs will make a fleet fast enough to kill a carrier - you could also use CAs instead of BB/BCs for maximum speed, but the fight will take longer (a 1940 BB only needs to hit the CV 2-3 times to sink it, CAs will need several additional shots - exposing you to fire for a longer period of time).
The *easiest* way to deal with CAGs in the early game is to make sure you've got larger fleets, even if it means you can only have 1 operational fleet, because when your unit is air attacked *every* unit in the stack will fire at the CAGs. 14+ ships can do a TON of damage to 2-3 CAG units at a time so long as their AA is updated.
Another alternative is to make sure they're under air cover (which is particularly important if you've built SH:BB) the easiest way to achieve this is to use MRFs (because they have range far superior to INTs) or NAVs in a large stack (they're even worse than MRFs at fighting things, but they have a huge range). The other upside to NAVs of course is that they will fight *and* bomb in the same tile so while they'll almost certainly lose the fight to the CAGs they'll take down their STR/ORG and also bomb whatever is in the tile lol.
Early war you shouldn't be losing many ships to CAGs/NAVsunless your fleets are just comedically small. But they do become a MUCH more potent threat after their 1943 techs.
The *easiest* way to deal with CAGs in the early game is to make sure you've got larger fleets, even if it means you can only have 1 operational fleet, because when your unit is air attacked *every* unit in the stack will fire at the CAGs. 14+ ships can do a TON of damage to 2-3 CAG units at a time so long as their AA is updated.
Another alternative is to make sure they're under air cover (which is particularly important if you've built SH:BB) the easiest way to achieve this is to use MRFs (because they have range far superior to INTs) or NAVs in a large stack (they're even worse than MRFs at fighting things, but they have a huge range). The other upside to NAVs of course is that they will fight *and* bomb in the same tile so while they'll almost certainly lose the fight to the CAGs they'll take down their STR/ORG and also bomb whatever is in the tile lol.
Early war you shouldn't be losing many ships to CAGs/NAVsunless your fleets are just comedically small. But they do become a MUCH more potent threat after their 1943 techs.
Sorry to hijack your thread, athunder7!
SAG vs CV combat feels like this Bull vs Bugs Bunny cartoon.
I feel like the CAG abstraction should be split into CAP and CAG to reflect their different roles. *A single air unit is currently able to defend against an air strike while they are attacking/repelling surface ships.*
Maybe doing a bit of modding to reduce CAG strength, attack and defense values a bit would help. Hopefully that would simulate the take off, assembly, air mission, landing and reloading/refueling cycle. Not all of the aircraft on a CV can take off at the same time.
At the very least, CVs should de-organize with their CAG so the CV is forced to *eventually* retreat when the CAG *repeatedly retreats*.
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SAG vs CV combat feels like this Bull vs Bugs Bunny cartoon.
I feel like the CAG abstraction should be split into CAP and CAG to reflect their different roles. *A single air unit is currently able to defend against an air strike while they are attacking/repelling surface ships.*
Maybe doing a bit of modding to reduce CAG strength, attack and defense values a bit would help. Hopefully that would simulate the take off, assembly, air mission, landing and reloading/refueling cycle. Not all of the aircraft on a CV can take off at the same time.
At the very least, CVs should de-organize with their CAG so the CV is forced to *eventually* retreat when the CAG *repeatedly retreats*.
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Thanks for helps people. I've started Tech'ing up my fighters earlier in game and rotating units with better ORG into zones to whittle down the Cags. On plus side and gamey side, if your chasing CV's and engage without much Cag damage your naval engage bonus will kick in after few months. Veteran Navy!
you want help with taking down enemy AI fleets? build giant fleets of CLs. trust me. 36 CL at max leader skill without counting techs. you will shred completely everything.
this goes for ALL types of fleets, including carriers.
this goes for ALL types of fleets, including carriers.