• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Szun

Major
6 Badges
Dec 17, 2002
769
0
Visit site
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • 500k Club
Originally posted by Wineman
I don't agree on the subject of infantry not improving in firepower. Compare early war infantry to late war infantry and you'll see that the amount of heavy equipment (AT, mortars, field and infantry guns, MG's) has increased significantly for the late-war infantry. I do agree that artillery technology did not increase drastically on the hardware side. but on the tactics level and on things like tabulated firing data, communication and response times, artillery improved drastically during wwII.

I see your point...
But at start of '36, german Infantry /no brigade has 2HA 8 SA atm
After all the research is done its aprox 12HA 20 SA
I think the increase of 150% in softattack is a bit unrealistic , dont U agree? (HA should be ok tho considering they dont have much at start )
Also GD increases to ~23 from ~10
 

Steel

Field Marshal
56 Badges
May 4, 2001
7.689
0
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
Originally posted by Copper Nicus

1) use upgrades lower then 1 (0.5, 0.25 and so on), but the players will be somehow puzzled by that (many posts on the forum to answer... :(); in that solution we can safely balance model stats, as those will be less dependant on the upgrades.

2) use upgrades in current form, but in some cases remove bonus at all, while adding the value to stats of models and add those upgrades as the prerequisites to the various tank models. This approach is very restrictive for players interested in "free-play" - it limits their ability to customize their machines. Also it's ahistorical - while SOV improved tanks had sloped armour, GER tanks hadn't and so on...

So which one should we choose?


The first option. There will be questions regardless and we've got a couple of good communication vehicles (this forum, the FAQ file, tech descs and user-to-user help). In the long term fractional values is IMHO the best way to model gradual improvements without unbalancing the game.

Have a think about adding a sentence to the tech desc like "This tech gives a fractional increase to unit stats"
 

unmerged(13601)

First Lieutenant
Jan 8, 2003
264
0
Visit site
Originally posted by Szun
I see your point...
But at start of '36, german Infantry /no brigade has 2HA 8 SA atm
After all the research is done its aprox 12HA 20 SA
I think the increase of 150% in softattack is a bit unrealistic , dont U agree? (HA should be ok tho considering they dont have much at start )
Also GD increases to ~23 from ~10

Well, taking real life US infantry as an example:

'36 situation Artillery response to firing request was approx. 15 min. and another 5 min. for accurate response

'45 situation, with accurate grid maps, pre-calculated firing tapes, good communication and the ability (through the pre-calulated data + grid maps) to rapidly fire with artillery in differing positions on the same location: approx. 3 min. response time, and not only battalion arty could respond but also divisional arty and even corps artillery, allowing an enormous amount of firepower to be rapidly and accurately applied on a location.

This is for impromtu fire, stated here. Maybe a 150% increase in SA is much, but by using your artillery more effectively, I think you can achieve such efficiency gains. (SA = kills/timeunit; more efficient firing = more targets in same time = higher SA). In this case, US artillery is able to target 5 targets in the time they could target 1 in '36. As artillery causes the most casualties on the battlefield, I support a 100 - 150% increase in SA, although maybe not the techs (descriptions) that give you the increases.
 

Szun

Major
6 Badges
Dec 17, 2002
769
0
Visit site
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • 500k Club
Well with the new Arty techtree it may not be that drastic anymore..I wait till I see it in action. Changes can be implied later still, if needed.
Since most infos go over wiki, wich i dont have access to...(not sure on URL and if I would be aloud too) any speculation on my side is just that, speculation.
The new trees look promising tho.
 

Mortu

Black Overlord
92 Badges
Jun 13, 2003
335
1
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Deus Vult
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
Besides alluminium diesel engines were used only by Soviets, most of the countries didn't use tank diesels at all, not mentioning alluminium ones. Also, Soviet diesel can't be described in standard quality terms "bad engine/good engine" - it was lighter, more expensive, harder to develop, but also less reliable then German engines. Does it mean that it was good or bad?

Don't think if such specialized tech should be added to the tech tree.

Copper, are you SURE our engines were less reliable than germans'? AFAIK they were more reliable especially when compared to the tigers and Panthers. One other MAJOR benefit was far better efficiency. Our tanks had much better mileage than Nazi's. Which brings up another point: Why not make a tech called "tank diesel engines"? It would probably be an Improved tank tech which'd lower oil consumption for armor. We, Soviets, developed practical diesel tank engines for the T-34 tank, circa 1940 (I can translate some russian historical articles if needed).
 

McNaughton

Wallet Inspector
6 Badges
Feb 2, 2003
2.283
0
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Originally posted by Mortu
Copper, are you SURE our engines were less reliable than germans'? AFAIK they were more reliable especially when compared to the tigers and Panthers. One other MAJOR benefit was far better efficiency. Our tanks had much better mileage than Nazi's. Which brings up another point: Why not make a tech called "tank diesel engines"? It would probably be an Improved tank tech which'd lower oil consumption for armor. We, Soviets, developed practical diesel tank engines for the T-34 tank, circa 1940 (I can translate some russian historical articles if needed).

The point then is, why would anyone not research diesel engine? Realistically, the Americans were not totally fortunate because of their engine designs and fuel choices. I seem to remember that Shermans were often called "Ronsons", based on the fact that they tended to burn, and burn well, when hit. Possibly diesel engined tanks should take a defense penalty if this was to be implemented?

Also, the more numerous Pzkpfw Mark III and IV did have very reliable engines, as they were based off of engines that were tested and capable of moving the weight of the tank. The early Panthers were unreliable due to them being thrown into battle off the drawing board (later Panthers were fairly reliable). So, realistically, the Germans did have some very reliable non-diesel engines, and some of the later (and early) British engines were also very reliable as well, without being diesel.
 

jdrou

Field Marshal
74 Badges
Jun 10, 2002
24.161
461
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Paradox Order
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Humble Paradox Bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • 500k Club
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Deus Vult
  • Darkest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Hearts of Iron Anthology
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
Originally posted by McNaughton
The point then is, why would anyone not research diesel engine? Realistically, the Americans were not totally fortunate because of their engine designs and fuel choices. I seem to remember that Shermans were often called "Ronsons", based on the fact that they tended to burn, and burn well, when hit. Possibly diesel engined tanks should take a defense penalty if this was to be implemented?
I believe diesel is actually less flammable than gasoline. Also, from what I can dig up it seems that most of the Shermans used by the US used gasoline engines; the M4A2 diesels were mostly used by Canada/UK/USSR (and US Marines). According to this site the main cause of the Sherman's fires was the way the ammunition was stowed inside the tank.
 

McNaughton

Wallet Inspector
6 Badges
Feb 2, 2003
2.283
0
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Infantry Technology

One thing that bugged me about Artillery, and bugs me about Infantry in vanilla HoI, is that it assumes either...

#1. Equipment is never obsolete and is used in the same amount even though better stuff is used as well (since you still get the Basic SMG bonus of +1 Soft Attack and +2 Ground Defense as well as the Improved SMG bonus).

#2. New equipment is twice as good as it is really stated (i.e., improved SMG is really +2 Soft Attack and +4 Ground Defense, simulating that when you get Imp SMG, you replace all Basic SMG, but still get the point value of the Basic SMG).

Neither option is really good, in my opinion.

When you look at most improved weaponry in historic documents and accounts, from rifles, submachine guns and GPMG, you will find that an improved weapon (i.e, MP40) was not twice as powerful as a basic weapon (i.e., MP34). Generally, you get a very similar rate of fire, generally similar bullet strength, etc. The differences are generally that the new guns were lighter, more reliable, easier to mass produce, etc. The US Grease Gun was developed for mass production, and was not really any better than the Tommy Gun, even though it was its replacement.

Also, should a SMG be just as effective as a General Service rifle when it comes to firepower? They both give the same bonus', but:

General Service Rifles were much more efficient at longer and medium ranges, very good for defense, and ok for attacking, but were issued in large numbers (a squad used about 10 of them).

Submachine guns were very ineffective at long and medium ranges, and are less effective for defensive operations. They were spectacular offensive weapons, however, they were issued in very small numbers (usually a squad used about 1 of them).

----------

I tried to work around this problem in the Artillery tech tree by having most of the big bonus' for Ground Defense, Hard Attack, Soft Attack, etc. to be at the beginning of the tech tree (i.e., with the basic weapon). Improvements would offer increases in speed, less supplies used, plus instead of adding Soft and Hard attack or Defense values, I added +% (i.e., desert attack, jungle attack, urban movement, etc.) which doesn't increase the weapon to the same amount as +1, but will be good for certian circumstances (i.e., good for nations that fight in jungle territory, desert territory, urban territory, etc...).

An example of what I think would work is (i.e. Submachine guns)

Basic Submachine Gun: Thompson SMG, Bergman SMG, etc..
+1 Soft Attack (simulating small numbers used but good attack ability, but also poor defense ability and small numbers results in a +0 defense value)
+0.02 Supplies used (crude design, used a lot of equipment and replacement parts due to unreliability and bulk)
*Plus add the following which combat was generally very close where SMG performed the best.
+5% Jungle Attack&Defense
+5% Forest Attack&Defense
+5% Swamp Attack&Defense
+5% Urban Attack&Defense

Improved Submachine Gun: MP40, Sten, Grease Gun, Owen, etc...
-0.01 Supplies used (improved design, less replacement parts needed)
-10 Days for producing a unit (simulating a weapon suited for mass production)

This would simulate the improved small arms replacing the Basic small arms (which had virtually the same battlefield firepower), but is much more efficient, and faster to produce. Sure, it doesn't boost your Infantry by anything, other than it costs less to supply them and it takes less to build them, which is what I think improved small arms actually did. I think this can apply to Service Rifles, Machine Guns, etc (but not anti-tank rockets, mortors or mines since they actually did increase in warhead load and would affect attack and defense values).

What do you think?
 
Last edited:

McNaughton

Wallet Inspector
6 Badges
Feb 2, 2003
2.283
0
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Originally posted by jdrou
I believe diesel is actually less flammable than gasoline. Also, from what I can dig up it seems that most of the Shermans used by the US used gasoline engines; the M4A2 diesels were mostly used by Canada/UK/USSR (and US Marines). According to this site the main cause of the Sherman's fires was the way the ammunition was stowed inside the tank.

Ah, ok, I was just confusing things. Thanks!
 
Last edited:

Gwalcmai

©
8 Badges
Mar 14, 2003
5.341
22
Visit site
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Pride of Nations
About the small arms: those ideas make sense, but will researching high levels of the tree be worth the bother, then? Also, does the urban modifier do anything? I seem to remember someone (Vulture or Max I) saying the urban modifiers were not used because the urban terrain was dropped for being too small scale.

As for the fractional values for the bonus from techs, do they really work? As in, does getting four 0.25 SA bonus really give you one SA more? (I'm not even asking if the fractional values make a difference in combat).
 

JRaup

Crusty Grognard
31 Badges
Apr 27, 2003
3.472
4
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Semper Fi
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
I think these changes are bit too much really. I do agree that the bonuses pile up quick, too quickly in fact, but the changes don't make all that much sense.

Most of the "improved weapons" weren't all that improved really. The ammount of innovation in small arms during the war years was minimal really. It was mostly just tweaks to existing designs, or even older designs never implemented. To use the comparison of the M-3 "Grease Gun" and the Thompson, the M-3 was anything but an improved model. It was designed for use by tank crews, and not intended for general service. It was a cheap, unreliable weapon, meant for close defense of a tank. In general US service were the Thompson and the BAR for squad automatics. There really weren't any significant changes to rifles or smgs until well after the war.

There was more innovation (if it can truly be called that) with GPMGs, where the shift was from water cooled to air cooled, but that had been going on since after WW1.

Most of what was changed were production methods, and even then, many of the late war weapons weren't of as high quality (inferior metals, stamped receivers, etc). The one new innovation really was the development of the assault rifle. This should provide a significant SA bonus.

My suggestion would be this:
1. remove the improved GPMG, and SMG entirely from the tech tree. Instead, expand the mass production techs to reflect the changes.

2. Move basic AR and such later in the tree, say late war testing dependant (at the earliest, and with tie ins to the industrial tree). The only bonus should be to SA, though I'd have to review all the potential bonuses.

Also, keep in mind that in almost every case, the older weapons weren't replaced, but used to supplement existing TO&Es. lastly, we need more inter-dependence between the military applications and the industrial techs. Right now, it is possible to have highly advanced weaponry (relatively speaking of course), yet be turn of the century in terms of industrial capabilities. This inequity needs to be corrected IMO.
 

unmerged(14683)

HoI2 Shtrafnik
Feb 12, 2003
5.432
0
Visit site
Originally posted by Mortu
Copper, are you SURE our engines were less reliable than germans'? AFAIK they were more reliable especially when compared to the tigers and Panthers. One other MAJOR benefit was far better efficiency. Our tanks had much better mileage than Nazi's.

I use www.battlefield.ru + various publications on T-34 history...
BTW, Valeriy site is simply great! :D

Generally you are right, but there are some twists that change obvious picture of T-34 - "wonder-weapon" - there was serious difference between engine models used in prototypes and mass produced, especially in critical, 1941-1943 period.

Range of SOV tanks was much better, but T-34, especially early ones (generally called "40/41 models"), had problems with longevity of the engine. Usually before every mayor attack, not only offensive, high command tried to change all the engines on the new ones. Mainly due to the fact, that GER used their tanks more economically (tank transportation trucks, more use of railroads), while SOV very often used long marches on their own territory.

Early Panther and Tiger tanks had reliability problems due to the fact, that those were constructed too fast, and were not tested enough. Contrary to that, T-34 project was developed 3 years (1937-1940). What's even funnier, after T-34 hit the units, RKKA decided to... exchange it as fast as possible for T-34M (A-43 - completly different project) - redesigned, and much better tank (bigger turret, redesigned hull, improved suspension, engine modification).
Later quality improved much, but during the war T-34 recieved the role that was not indended for them - those tanks become main armament of tank formations, while even at the end of 1940 it was obvious, that this particular model will be only testing platform.

Originally posted by Mortu
Which brings up another point: Why not make a tech called "tank diesel engines"? It would probably be an Improved tank tech which'd lower oil consumption for armor. We, Soviets, developed practical diesel tank engines for the T-34 tank, circa 1940 (I can translate some russian historical articles if needed).

I would rather go for something that rises survivability - after all diesel fuel was harder to ignite... The problem is that only one nation used those and it would be not too good to allow something that unique for everyone.
 

Ghost_dk

Chief of all Ghost Divisions
5 Badges
Feb 6, 2003
2.353
0
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
wood engine cars

Just saw a program on danish television the other night in which was shown an old mercedes from denmarks occupation period. Turns out that since there was only little oil on the market many civilian cars were moddified using some kind of dried wood engine that was fitted to the existing engine and thereby reducing the use of gas.

Maybe we could add this technology to the industry tech tree.

Using less gas for civilians would leave more for military use.

It could give a small increase in the coal to oil conversion. like maybe 0.1 or even just 0.05 in favor of better conversion.

If you guys like it ill try and dig out some pics and descriptions.

Ghost_dk
 

unmerged(14683)

HoI2 Shtrafnik
Feb 12, 2003
5.432
0
Visit site
Re: wood engine cars

Originally posted by Ghost_dk
Just saw a program on danish television the other night in which was shown an old mercedes from denmarks occupation period. Turns out that since there was only little oil on the market many civilian cars were moddified using some kind of dried wood engine that was fitted to the existing engine and thereby reducing the use of gas.

Maybe we could add this technology to the industry tech tree.

Using less gas for civilians would leave more for military use.

It could give a small increase in the coal to oil conversion. like maybe 0.1 or even just 0.05 in favor of better conversion.

If you guys like it ill try and dig out some pics and descriptions.

Ghost_dk

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

How about horse carts tech? Those were quite important of supply chain in German/Soviet/Italian/French/Minor armies... ;)


Code:
		application = { # Horse supply cart
			id = 2991
			name = "Horse supply cart"
			desc = "While in all movies and chronicles of WW II we see tanks and trucks, trusty horse cart was the mainstay of supply chain of the most european and non-european armies. Historically, those were stolen (requisitioned) by German Werhmacht in numerous occupied countries."
			
			required = { }
			chance = 80
			cost = 6
			time = 90
			neg_offset = 40
			pos_offset = 80
			
			effects = {
				command = { type = supply_consumption which = infantry when = now value = -0.1 }

command = { type = max_organization which = infantry when = now value = -0.1 }


			}
		}

calvaryman-horse.BMP


But seriously - scale of recycling of rare materials in WW II was quite impressive, but I see it more like event material... ;)
 
Last edited:

Mortu

Black Overlord
92 Badges
Jun 13, 2003
335
1
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Surviving Mars
  • BATTLETECH
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury Pre-order
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Deus Vult
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Originally posted by Copper Nicus
I use www.battlefield.ru + various publications on T-34 history...
BTW, Valeriy site is simply great! :D

^_^ Do you read the english or russian version of the website? If russian, what do you think of Chobitok's site ( http://armor.kiev.ua/ ) ?


I would rather go for something that rises survivability - after all diesel fuel was harder to ignite... The problem is that only one nation used those and it would be not too good to allow something that unique for everyone.

What about these two options:
a) a soviet-only tech given to them as an event when Improved Medium Prototype is discovered?

b) a diesel engine (doctrine?) tech towards the end of the tech tree for diesel tank engines (I think diesel engines became common in the post-war / MBT era), given to the USSR at the beginning and a diesel application tech which USSR wither researches or gets via an event to get the actual benefits (and other countries may research in late 40's)?

Thanks.
~Mortu
 

Steel

Field Marshal
56 Badges
May 4, 2001
7.689
0
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • BATTLETECH
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Shadowrun: Hong Kong
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
Re: wood engine cars

Originally posted by Ghost_dk
It could give a small increase in the coal to oil conversion. like maybe 0.1 or even just 0.05 in favor of better conversion.


Conversion techs set the variable to the new value, discarding previous setting.
 

unmerged(14683)

HoI2 Shtrafnik
Feb 12, 2003
5.432
0
Visit site
Originally posted by Mortu
^_^ Do you read the english or russian version of the website? If russian, what do you think of Chobitok's site ( http://armor.kiev.ua/ ) ?

English, my Russian is a bit rusty - no practical use since high school... ;) Thanks for the link - seems like I'll have an ocassion to renew some language skills... :D


Originally posted by Mortu
What about these two options:
a) a soviet-only tech given to them as an event when Improved Medium Prototype is discovered?

b) a diesel engine (doctrine?) tech towards the end of the tech tree for diesel tank engines (I think diesel engines became common in the post-war / MBT era), given to the USSR at the beginning and a diesel application tech which USSR wither researches or gets via an event to get the actual benefits (and other countries may research in late 40's)?

First option seems fine - second is rather hard to implement. Lower oil use and +1 to the defense should do the trick. Ok, I will script something.
 

McNaughton

Wallet Inspector
6 Badges
Feb 2, 2003
2.283
0
Visit site
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • 500k Club
  • Hearts of Iron II: Beta
  • Pride of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Originally posted by JRaup
I think these changes are bit too much really. I do agree that the bonuses pile up quick, too quickly in fact, but the changes don't make all that much sense.

Most of the "improved weapons" weren't all that improved really. The ammount of innovation in small arms during the war years was minimal really. It was mostly just tweaks to existing designs, or even older designs never implemented. To use the comparison of the M-3 "Grease Gun" and the Thompson, the M-3 was anything but an improved model. It was designed for use by tank crews, and not intended for general service. It was a cheap, unreliable weapon, meant for close defense of a tank. In general US service were the Thompson and the BAR for squad automatics. There really weren't any significant changes to rifles or smgs until well after the war.

There was more innovation (if it can truly be called that) with GPMGs, where the shift was from water cooled to air cooled, but that had been going on since after WW1.

Most of what was changed were production methods, and even then, many of the late war weapons weren't of as high quality (inferior metals, stamped receivers, etc). The one new innovation really was the development of the assault rifle. This should provide a significant SA bonus.

My suggestion would be this:
1. remove the improved GPMG, and SMG entirely from the tech tree. Instead, expand the mass production techs to reflect the changes.

2. Move basic AR and such later in the tree, say late war testing dependant (at the earliest, and with tie ins to the industrial tree). The only bonus should be to SA, though I'd have to review all the potential bonuses.

Also, keep in mind that in almost every case, the older weapons weren't replaced, but used to supplement existing TO&Es. lastly, we need more inter-dependence between the military applications and the industrial techs. Right now, it is possible to have highly advanced weaponry (relatively speaking of course), yet be turn of the century in terms of industrial capabilities. This inequity needs to be corrected IMO.

How about instead of advanced and improved small arms weaponry we add the following in the "Assembly Mass Production" area? This would simulate exactly what is happening when you develop improved weapons, without having countless techs to research them individually.

Code:
application = { # Small Arms Assembly Construction Process
	id = 4405
	name = "Small Arms Assembly Construction Process"
	desc = TECH_APP_INDUSTRY_5_1_DESC
			
	required = { }
	chance = 90
	cost = 12
	time = 150
	neg_offset = 30
	pos_offset = 60
			
	effects = {

		command = { type = build_cost which = infantry when = now value = -1 }
		command = { type = build_time which = infantry when = now value = -10 }
		command = { type = build_cost which = marine when = now value = -1 }
		command = { type = build_time which = marine when = now value = -10 }
		command = { type = build_cost which = paratrooper when = now value = -1 }
		command = { type = build_time which = paratrooper when = now value = -10 }
		command = { type = build_cost which = bergsjaeger when = now value = -1 }
		command = { type = build_time which = bergsjaeger when = now value = -20 }
	}
}