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Pkunzipper

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Re: Carrier Aircraft

MateDow, I agree with you that CAG should have a greatly reduced AA (in a CAG squadron roughly there is only 1/3 of fighters) and improved AD (AD concept is more abstract...should have a better AD a thick but slow bomber or a thinner but agile and fast fighter?) compared with a land fighter squadron.

Originally posted by MateDow
I don't agree...
Sorry, I didn't understand what you disagree about...
 
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Pkunzipper

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Originally posted by Chaplain
One caveat - we'll have to reduce the cost to develop all air techs accordingly, or the poor Japanese will never get decent carrier power. In 1.05c, it's impossible unless you completely bankrupt the army and LBA.
It seems quite historycal to me...

Maybe in the next version (0.7) we should try to have more doctrinal pre-req for Naval technologies (as for other stuff, so that you can have advanced weapons only if you have "late war analysis") and to lower their cost of 1 IC.
 

MateDow

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Re: Re: my two cents on CAGs

Originally posted by jkkelley
As US and Japan both, I myself would be a lot happier just to actually have planes for my carriers at start. Unless, of course, we have historical evidence that they were lacking them in 1936. MateDow would know.

jkk

You are just picky. Who needs planes for carriers. We all know that battleships are the most important anyway :D. I don'thave any data on carrier wings, other than the fact that they existed :(. Anything people could post on the naval thread in that regard would be helpful.

I knew I forgot something :(

MDow
 

unmerged(18202)

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Re: Re: Re: my two cents on CAGs

Originally posted by MateDow
You are just picky. Who needs planes for carriers. We all know that battleships are the most important anyway :D. I don'thave any data on carrier wings, other than the fact that they existed :(.

Maybe a simple prewar torpedo plane unit and prewar interceptor per carrier (for those that can hold two). It would be hard for the AI or a human to abuse, I should hope. Or maybe those just for Japan, and let the US build its own--perhaps even have them in their starting build queue to eat IC. They're grossly expensive for what you get.

jkk
 

MateDow

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Re: Re: Re: Re: my two cents on CAGs

Originally posted by jkkelley
Maybe a simple prewar torpedo plane unit and prewar interceptor per carrier (for those that can hold two). It would be hard for the AI or a human to abuse, I should hope. Or maybe those just for Japan, and let the US build its own--perhaps even have them in their starting build queue to eat IC. They're grossly expensive for what you get.

jkk

I will see if I can get that into the final version before it is released. If it doesn't make it into the version that will be released soon, it will probably be in the first bugfix. That is assuming that we need a bugfix :D. MDow
 

Gwalcmai

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The Audaz-class ships aren't destroyers, they're coastal gunboats... And there are none in the Spanish OOB, and the AI won't be building them. And, as they are more expensive than the Alsedo-class, a human won't build them either. So, does it really matter if it's 500 or 1000? :D

Besides, MDow has been repeating very often that the purpose of the 20_0 model is to make sure there aren't many ahistorical navies floating around. If Nepal gets the notion to build a navy, it's going to have a very hard time doing it, and when it does the ships will be expensive and so bad that Hitler's river barges for sealion will outrun and sink them easily...
 

Halibutt

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Originally posted by Gwalcmai
The Audaz-class ships aren't destroyers, they're coastal gunboats... And there are none in the Spanish OOB, and the AI won't be building them. And, as they are more expensive than the Alsedo-class, a human won't build them either. So, does it really matter if it's 500 or 1000?(...)
The reason I asked is that I played a game as Rep. Spain and... guess what? I got two of those (I didn't start the construction, they were already there). And no other destroyers.
Cheers
 

Szun

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Re: Re: Re: Re: Logistics Mulberries

Originally posted by shimgray
This reminds me of a minor problem - free builds. I've had a game before, where playing as the US I was able to build corvettes (I wanted to bulk up my convoys, put a half-dozen on line to construct, was quite surprised) for 0 IC over however many days... this seemed, to put it mildly, eminently abusable (and liable to do odd things to an AI, I fear).

[Off the top of my head, it was a result of all the modular shipbuilding techs plus the "Open Seas" minister]

Not sure exactly what can be done about this, but thought I'd throw it to the world...

I changed build cost to 3IC and reduced buildtime to 100 days (Corvette) to avoid 0 cost builds, I had the same exp as US once.
No ship should cost less then 3, even a sub, U get various ministers that give bonuses that may pull it down to 0.
P.S. DD 1000 t is cost 2 also..I didnt change it tho (yet)
An exploit by the AI is less likely because its a 'old' design. But in MP..hmm
 

Gwalcmai

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Originally posted by Halibutt
The reason I asked is that I played a game as Rep. Spain and... guess what? I got two of those (I didn't start the construction, they were already there). And no other destroyers.
Cheers

Well, I don't see any model = 0 destroyers in spain.inc. The only model = 0 in there are the subs. And there are 3 destroyer flotillas, one model 1 and two model 4. They're not great, but it's much better than coastal gunboats... :) And I think model 4 is as good as anyone will be getting with the possible exception of USA, ENG and JAP.

I also notice MDow didn't get aroung to fixing the dual cruiser bug... Tsk, tsk... ;) Well, there's always 0.61.
 

Szun

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Armored Divison, new aproach

I modified the Armor tech tree with less 'choises to build' but the buildable tanks as bonuses 'value on upgrade = xxx'

here the Divisons:

# 0 - Early Tank supported Infantry Divison
model = {
cost = 9
buildtime = 180
manpower = 6
maxspeed = 3
defaultorganisation = 20
grounddefence = 1
airdefence = 1
softattack = 1
hardattack = 0
airattack = 1
transportweight = 30
supplyconsumption = 1.5
fuelconsumption = 1.5
speed_cap_art = 3
speed_cap_eng = 5
speed_cap_at = 3
speed_cap_aa = 3
}

# 5 - Basic Tank divison
model = {
cost = 10
buildtime = 180
manpower = 6
maxspeed = 5
defaultorganisation = 30
grounddefence = 2
airdefence = 1
softattack = 2
hardattack = 1
airattack = 1
transportweight = 40
supplyconsumption = 2
fuelconsumption = 2
speed_cap_art = 10
speed_cap_eng = 100
speed_cap_at = 10
speed_cap_aa = 10
}

# 19 - Basic Tank Divison (+TR)/extra Tank regiment
model = {
cost = 11
buildtime = 190
manpower = 7
maxspeed = 5
defaultorganisation = 30
grounddefence = 3
airdefence = 1
softattack = 2
hardattack = 3
airattack = 1
transportweight = 40
supplyconsumption = 2.4
fuelconsumption = 2.4
speed_cap_art = 10
speed_cap_eng = 100
speed_cap_at = 10
speed_cap_aa = 10

}

# 25 - Tank Division '40
model = {
cost = 10
buildtime = 200
manpower = 6
maxspeed = 6
defaultorganisation = 30
grounddefence = 4
airdefence = 2
softattack = 3
hardattack = 3
airattack = 2
transportweight = 40
supplyconsumption = 3
fuelconsumption = 3
speed_cap_art = 10
speed_cap_eng = 100
speed_cap_at = 10
speed_cap_aa = 10

}
# 26 - Tank Division '40 (+T)
model = {
cost = 12
buildtime = 210
manpower = 7
maxspeed = 6
defaultorganisation = 30
grounddefence = 5
airdefence = 2
softattack = 4
hardattack = 5
airattack = 2
transportweight = 50
supplyconsumption = 3.5
fuelconsumption = 3.5
speed_cap_art = 10
speed_cap_eng = 100
speed_cap_at = 10
speed_cap_aa = 10

}

# 29 - Elite Tank Divison
model = {
cost = 15
buildtime = 240
manpower = 9
maxspeed = 6
defaultorganisation = 50
grounddefence = 5
airdefence = 2
softattack = 5
hardattack = 5
airattack = 2
transportweight = 40
supplyconsumption = 3.5
fuelconsumption = 3.5
speed_cap_art = 10
speed_cap_eng = 100
speed_cap_at = 10
speed_cap_aa = 10
}
# 33 - Tank Divison '44
model = {
cost = 15
buildtime = 240
manpower = 6
maxspeed = 6
defaultorganisation = 30
grounddefence = 6
airdefence = 3
softattack = 6
hardattack = 6
airattack = 2
transportweight = 50
supplyconsumption = 3
fuelconsumption = 3
speed_cap_art = 10
speed_cap_eng = 100
speed_cap_at = 10
speed_cap_aa = 10
}

# 38 - Postwar Tank Divison
model = {
cost = 20
buildtime = 240
manpower = 6
maxspeed = 7
defaultorganisation = 30
grounddefence = 8
airdefence = 3
softattack = 7
hardattack = 7
airattack = 3
transportweight = 60
supplyconsumption = 3.2
fuelconsumption = 3.2
speed_cap_art = 12
speed_cap_eng = 100
speed_cap_at = 12
speed_cap_aa = 12

}
Note: Elite tank divison with prereq: Elite unit doctrine and mech command doc.
 
Last edited:

Szun

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The techchanges are ranther extensive but I can show some of it.

application = { # Great War Tank
id = 2006
name = "Great War Tank"
desc = "Tanks were first used in World War One to break the stalemate of the trenches. Most were armed with either machine guns or cannon. In some examples, both cannon and machine guns were fitted. Historically, this was the British Mark V tank."

required = { 2005 }
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = now value = 1 }
command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = now value = 0.1 }
command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = now value = 0.1 }

}
}
application = { # Tankette (.50 MG)
id = 2988
name = "Tankette (.50 MG)"
desc = "This tankette was armed with a single .50 caliber Machine Gun. Historically, this was the British Carden-Loyd Mark VI an polish TK/TKS.Since their inability to survive on the battlefield, tankettes often were used as a scout vehicles."

required = { 2986 14973 }
chance = 90
cost = 6
time = 60
neg_offset = 15
pos_offset = 30

effects = {
command = { type = army_detection which = us value = 2 }
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
#command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = now value = 0.1 }
#command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = now value = 0.1 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2987 }
}
}
application = { # Inf Support Tank battalion
id = 2993
name = "Inf Support Tank battalion"
desc = "Infantry support tanks were based around the Great War concept of the land battleship, advancing with infantry and brakeing defences thanks to multiple turrets containing cannons or machine guns. Historically, this was the British Vickers A1E1 Independent. Battalions of those were usually added to the units assaulting heavy fortified enemy positions."

required = { 2985 14105 }
chance = 90
cost = 6
time = 60
neg_offset = 15
pos_offset = 30

effects = {
#command = { type = new_model which = armor value = 4 }
command = { type = soft_attack which = infantry when = on_upgrade value = 1 } # new
command = { type = ground_defense which = infantry when = on_upgrade value = 1 } # new
command = { type = build_time which = infantry when = on_upgrade value = 10 } # new
command = { type = build_cost which = infantry when = on_upgrade value = 1 } # new
command = { type = supply_consumption which = infantry when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 } # new
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }

}
}
application = { # Basic Halftrack Troop Carrier
id = 2102
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_2_2_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_2_2_DESC

required = { 2004 }
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = speed which = mechanized when = now value = 1 }
command = { type = soft_attack which = mechanized when = now value = 1 }
command = { type = ground_defense which = mechanized when = now value = 1 }
command = { type = speed which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }

}
}
application = { # Basic Tank Divison
id = 2104
name = "Basic Tank Divison"
desc = "German 'Wehrmacht' was the first Armed Forced to Deploy Armored Units in a 'Panzerdivison'. They consited of 1 Tank regiment 3 motorized Infantry regiments and supportunits."

required = { 2103 }
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = new_model which = armor value = 5 }
}
}
application = { # Basic Light Tank (20+mm)
id = 2105
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_2_5_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_2_5_DESC

required = { 2103 14010 }
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
#command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
#command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
# command = { type = deactivate which = 2105 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2106 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2107 }

}
}
application = { # Basic Light Tank (30+mm)
id = 2106
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_2_6_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_2_6_DESC

required = { 2103 14011 }
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2105 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2107 }

}
}
application = { # Basic Light Tank (40+mm)
id = 2107
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_2_7_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_2_7_DESC

required = { 2103 14105 }
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 2 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2105 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2106 }

}
}
application = { # Light Assault Gun (30+mm)
id = 2305
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_4_5_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_4_5_DESC

required = { 2103 14003 11203 } # add Combined Arms Warfare Doctrine
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = soft_attack which = mechanized when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = soft_attack which = motorized when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
#command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
#command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
#command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }

}
}
application = { # Light Tank Destroyer (30+mm)
id = 2307
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_4_7_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_4_7_DESC

required = { 2103 14008 }
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = hard_attack which = motorized when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = mechanized when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = anti_tank when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
#command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
#command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
#command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
#command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }

}
}
application = { # Light Tank Destroyer (40+mm)
id = 2308
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_4_8_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_4_8_DESC

required = { 2307 14009 }
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = hard_attack which = motorized when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = mechanized when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = anti_tank when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
#command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
#command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
#command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
#command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }

}
}
application = { # Basic Medium Tank (MG)
id = 2315
name = "Basic Tank Divison (+TR)"
desc = "Tank Divison were deployed in various sizes, the US had double the amount of Tanks in thier Divisons."

required = { 2314 }
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = new_model which = armor value = 19 }
# command = { type = deactivate which = 2316 }
# command = { type = deactivate which = 2317 }
# command = { type = deactivate which = 2318 }
# command = { type = deactivate which = 2319 }
}
}
application = { # Basic Medium Tank (30+mm)
id = 2316
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_4_16_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_4_16_DESC

required = { 2314 14011 }
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
#command = { type = new_model which = armor value = 17 }
#command = { type = deactivate which = 2315 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2317 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2318 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2319 }
#command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
#command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
#command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }


}
}
application = { # Basic Medium Tank (40+mm)
id = 2317
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_4_17_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_4_17_DESC

required = { 2314 14105 }
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
#command = { type = new_model which = armor value = 18 }
#command = { type = deactivate which = 2315 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2316 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2318 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2319 }
#command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
#command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
#command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 3 }
command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }


}
}
application = { # Basic Medium Tank (50+mm)
id = 2318
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_4_18_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_4_18_DESC

required = { 2314 14206 }
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
#command = { type = new_model which = armor value = 19 }
#command = { type = deactivate which = 2315 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2316 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2317 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2319 }
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 4 }
command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }


}
}

I hope U get the idea how if should work.
Atm I only started to test it, but it looks promising.

application = { # Advanced Medium Tank (50+mm)
id = 2505
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_6_5_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_6_5_DESC

required = { 2504 14206 4803 } # Quality Control added
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
#command = { type = new_model which = armor value = 26 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2506 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2611 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2983 }
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 3 }
command = { type = speed which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = build_time which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 5 } # new
command = { type = build_cost which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 } # new

}
}
application = { # Advanced Medium Tank (70+mm)
id = 2983
name = "Advanced Medium Tank (70 M)"
desc = "The tank was a formidable component on the battlefield due to its protection and speed. It could be found alongside infantry, used in conjunction with other mechanized equipment or combined into a tank unit depending on the doctrine by which it was employed. The Advanced Medium Tank (70mm+ M)."

required = { 2504 14976 4803 } # Quality Control added
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
#command = { type = new_model which = armor value = 27 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2505 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2611 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2506 }
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 2 }
command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 3 }
command = { type = speed which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = build_time which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 5 } # new
command = { type = build_cost which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 } # new

}
}

application = { # Advanced Medium Tank (70+mm)
id = 2506
name = "Advanced Medium Tank (70 L)"
desc = "The tank was a formidable component on the battlefield due to its protection and speed. It could be found alongside infantry, used in conjunction with other mechanized equipment or combined into a tank unit depending on the doctrine by which it was employed. The Advanced Medium Tank (70mm+ L) was equipped with a long barreled 70+mm Tank Gun allowing it to defeat soft and medium armoured targets. Historically this was the German PzKpfw V Panther, and the British Comet."

required = { 2504 14977 4803 11407 } # Quality Control added
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
#command = { type = new_model which = armor value = 28 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2505 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2611 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2983 }
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.2 }
command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.2 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 5 }
command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 3 }
command = { type = speed which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = build_time which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 5 } # new
command = { type = build_cost which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 2 } # new

}
}
application = { # Advanced Medium Tank (80+mm)
id = 2611
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_7_11_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_7_11_DESC

required = { 2504 14503 4803 11407 } # Quality Control added
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
#command = { type = new_model which = armor value = 29 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2505 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2506 }
command = { type = deactivate which = 2983 }
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 3 }
command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.2 }
command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.2 }
command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 4 }
command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 3 }
command = { type = speed which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = build_time which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 5 } # new
command = { type = build_cost which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 2 } # new
# note: the german 75L70(Phanther gun) had a higher armor penetration as the 88L56 (tigerI gun)

}
}
application = { # Advanced Heavy Tank Prototype Tests
id = 2804
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_9_4_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_9_4_DESC

required = { 2601 2602 2603 2704 }
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 150
neg_offset = 30
pos_offset = 60

effects = {
command = { }
}
}

application = { # Advanced Heavy Tank Battalion
id = 2805
name = "Adv Heavy Tank Battalion"
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_9_5_DESC

required = { 2804 2705 14503 4803 } # Imp HT Batt added, Quality Control added
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 } # new
command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 2 } # new
command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 2 } # new
command = { type = build_time which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 5 } # new
command = { type = build_cost which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 } # new
command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 } # new
command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 } # new
}
}

application = { # Heavy Assault Gun (100+mm)
id = 2607
name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_7_7_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_7_7_DESC

required = { 2306 2804 14102 4803 } # Quality Control added
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = soft_attack which = motorized when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = soft_attack which = mechanized when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
#command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = now value = 0.1 }
#command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = now value = 0.1 }
#command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
#command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 3 }
#command = { type = speed which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }


}
}
application = { # Super-Heavy Tank (100+mm)
id = 2942
name = "Super Heavy Tank Battalion"
desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_9_5_DESC

required = { 2805 2941 14803 }
chance = 90
cost = 8
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = soft_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 3 } # new
command = { type = hard_attack which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 4 } # new
command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 3 } # new
command = { type = build_time which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 5 } # new
command = { type = build_cost which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 2 } # new
command = { type = fuel_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 } # new
command = { type = supply_consumption which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 0.1 } # new
}
}

In general: every light and medium tank researched gives bonuses acording to the tankgun used. Once the pick is made U stick with it. Choose if U want cheaper divisons or more powerfull and so on.

Took me 8 hours to mod it, its no way perfect and I am open for suggestions. I also cant change the text 'tanktype xxx' that shows in buildscreen, if anyone knows where to change it pls let me know.

thx, and feel free to post your thoughts on it.

Szun

P.S. I thought about adding 'Extra Motorized Regiment' and 'extra Mech Regiment' with bonuses to softattack and grounddefense at a cost to manpower and IC. But until now I didnt add it and I dont know if I should. Let me know what U think.
P.S.S I noticed I must add the lower Divison as prereq for the next so tanks cant be down-upgraded etc...its on my todolist :D
 
Last edited:

unmerged(14683)

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While it looks logical, IMO many people will miss the fact, that they doesn't have Pz IIIH division and instead get just line of the stats. :(

IMO models part of HoI (especially air and tank models) make important part of "playability" - player at once knows, that when he get Pather he will have decent tanks, while this approach makes it much harder to notice. What's more, player won't be able to identify the type of enemy tanks - no matter if enemy uses tankette or Basic MBT.

Incidently, in modified air tech tree (for 0.7) we went in opposite different way - we make more models instead of simple upgrades.
 

Steel

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Originally posted by Copper Nicus
While it looks logical, IMO many people will miss the fact, that they doesn't have Pz IIIH division and instead get just line of the stats. :(


I would like to see this:

- Keep the current Light and Medium tank divisions

- Keep the current Recon and Heavy battallions

- Get rid of the Superheavy tank divisions (replace with Superheavy tank battallion tech +GD +HA +SA -Speed +Cost)

- Keep the current MBT tank divisions

- Improved tracks (2974) to give an artillery brigade speed bonus

- Split APC tech (2972) into a light APC (cost 6) with current stats except speed +2 for mech and heavy APC (cost 8) with mech/armor ground_defence +2. Each tech deactivates the other.

- Move 2004 (Early Halftrack) into the Interwar category with pre-req 2986, 2101. Strip the soft attack bonus.

Code:
		application = { # Early Halftrack Troop Carrier
			id = 2004
			name = TECH_APP_ARMOR_1_4_NAME
			desc = TECH_APP_ARMOR_1_4_DESC
			
			required = { 2986 2101 }
			chance = 90
			cost = 8
			time = 90
			neg_offset = 20
			pos_offset = 40
			
			effects = {
				command = { type = ground_defense which = mechanized when = now value = 1 }
			}
		}

- Add two "Armored Car Brigade" armor tech (say ID # 2991 and 2992) just after Tankette .50 MG, with pre-reqs 2986, 2101 and 12.7MG or 20mm Tank gun respectively (1975 and 14010). I'm thinking along the lines of British Lanchester's, Russian BA-xx and German Kfz 13. Maybe they should be based on lighter MG's and the ATR infantry tech (1203) instead, feedback welcome!

Code:
		application = { # Armored Car Brigade
			id = 2991
			name = "Light Armored Car Brigade"
			desc = "Armored cars were used successfully in the Great War and they remained an important part of the arsenal of many countries in the inter-war years.  They were used in formations up to brigade size by some nations to fulfil roles previously conducted by horse cavalry, with armored car units normally attached on a battallion or brigade basis to an infantry force. Most armored cars were armed with medium or heavy machine guns, making them primarily useful against infantry and cavalry."
			
			required = { 2986 2101 1975 } 
			chance = 90
			cost = 6
			time = 180
			neg_offset = 20
			pos_offset = 40
			
			effects = {
				command = { type = desert_attack which = infantry value = 10 }
				command = { type = desert_defense which = infantry value = 20 }
				command = { type = desert_attack which = motorized value = 10 }
				command = { type = desert_defense which = motorized value = 20 }
				command = { type = soft_attack which = infantry value = 1 }
				command = { type = ground_defense which = infantry when = upgrade value = 2 }
				command = { type = supply_consumption which = infantry when = upgrade value = 0.1 }
				command = { type = soft_attack which = motorized value = 1 }
				command = { type = ground_defense which = motorized when = upgrade value = 2 }
				command = { type = supply_consumption which = motorized when = upgrade value = 0.1 }
				command = { type = deactivate which = 2992 }
			}
		}

		application = { # Armored Car Brigade
			id = 2992
			name = "Heavy Armored Car Brigade"
			desc = "Armored cars were used successfully in the Great War and they remained an important part of the arsenal of many countries in the inter-war years.  They were used in formations up to brigade size by some nations to fulfil roles previously conducted by horse cavalry, with armored car units normally attached on a battallion or brigade basis to an infantry force. Heavier armored cars were armed with tank cannons rather than machine guns which allowed them to be used in an anti-tank role, relying on superior mobility rather than armor to avoid destruction."
			
			required = { 2986 2101 14010 } 
			chance = 90
			cost = 8
			time = 180
			neg_offset = 20
			pos_offset = 40
			
			effects = {
				command = { type = desert_attack which = infantry value = 10 }
				command = { type = desert_defense which = infantry value = 20 }
				command = { type = desert_attack which = motorized value = 10 }
				command = { type = desert_defense which = motorized value = 20 }
				command = { type = soft_attack which = infantry value = 1 }
				command = { type = hard_attack which = infantry value = 1 }
				command = { type = ground_defense which = infantry when = upgrade value = 2 }
				command = { type = supply_consumption which = infantry when = upgrade value = 0.1 }
				command = { type = soft_attack which = motorized value = 1 }
				command = { type = hard_attack which = motorized value = 1 }
				command = { type = ground_defense which = motorized when = upgrade value = 2 }
				command = { type = supply_consumption which = motorized when = upgrade value = 0.1 }
				command = { type = deactivate which = 2991 }
			}
		}


Note: code not tested - it's just an early draft.
 

JRaup

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I like the idea of the AC brigades. This will of course, necessitate several changes to some country's initial inc files, but will make many of the minors much mre acurate.
 

Szun

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to Steel: sounds good to me:)

I allways favored the superhavy tank battalion over division building. When do anyone builds SHT divisons ? Me for one only build a few for defense if at all.
Like Guderian said:' The engine is the 2nd weapon of the Tank'
For the cost I get nearly 2 postwar and those are a lot faster.

My 'Mod' was a way to get in a elite divison tho, with the current techtree that is not easy to manage. Maybe...as a Tech that gives Tank unites More Org for the cost of manpower and IC on Upgrade? Thats the only way how one could do it. But it wont say Waffen-SS afterwards tho.
One other way, with the now empty Tank number from SH we could add 3 Wss types for PIIIH PIVH and Panther for example? but 3 aint enough to cover all, but if limited to the Historical units in use say: Basic medium 50mm, Imp medium 70mm(M) and Adv. medium 70mm long it may work.

One note on tankguns while I post here...

As I noted insde the 'Mod' text allready, the 75L70 had a higher penetration then the 88L56 tigergun. Meaning: the hard attack should be higher on the 70mm Long and the softattack could be increased instead on the 80mm.(I would recomend -2 HA on 80 mm +2 SA (20 HA 18 soft and 21 HA on the 70mm long)
The russian 85mm had noway near the penetration power then the german 88 had, but I dont want to split the guns now to 88mm and 85mm or even put the 88 long Tiger II gun in. That would make the techtree to big and would add 2 more tanks.
 

Szun

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And here a thought on rockets techtree...

I noticed the 'Air to ground' missle gives 2 bonues, 1 to Nav bomber and 1 to tac bomber but both are naval attack +2.
Afaik, in WWII the allied Jabos (Jagdbomber) aka Tac bomber/ Dive-bomber, used missled to kill tanks and other ground forces.
Why not modify that tech a bit to give a bonus to Tactical attacks too, maybe +1 or +2 to Tac and Dive and maybe even +1 to fighter tac attack.

just a thought (takes long enough to get to missles anyway so its no big deal to have a bonus with jetbombers etc)

ah and while I think about missles...why is the guided missle cruiser weaker in Naval attack then hes normal counterpart? isnt the guided missle a step up not a step down?
Same goes for Guided missle BB and DD
isnt the missle more acurate then a shell? > more damage?
 

unmerged(14683)

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Originally posted by Szun
And here a thought on rockets techtree...

I noticed the 'Air to ground' missle gives 2 bonues, 1 to Nav bomber and 1 to tac bomber but both are naval attack +2.
Afaik, in WWII the allied Jabos (Jagdbomber) aka Tac bomber/ Dive-bomber, used missled to kill tanks and other ground forces.
Why not modify that tech a bit to give a bonus to Tactical attacks too, maybe +1 or +2 to Tac and Dive and maybe even +1 to fighter tac attack.

just a thought (takes long enough to get to missles anyway so its no big deal to have a bonus with jetbombers etc)

We work on revisited air tech tree for 0.7, rockets (both basic, like soviet M-82 used on the Il-2m3 and those more advanced will be covered).
 

Pkunzipper

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I like Aromored Car idea!

About tank guns:
the main problem is that in WW2 there where 2 kind of 80+mm guns.

the former is the Russian 85mm or the German 88mm/56 (the one of the Tiger I), both had less penetrating power than the 75/70 (The one of the Panther for example).

the latter is the German 88mm/71 (the one of the Tiger II), that in my opinion should be considered as a 90mm gun (it had a greater penetration power than the american 90mm gun of the M-36)
 
Last edited: