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McNaughton

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whit said:
Any considration for the creaton of elite brigade/regiment sized elite units?
The units envisioned are:
for the USA - Rangers, First Special Service Force, Marine Raiders
for the British - Commandos, Special Boat Service, Special Air Service
for the Germans - Brandenbergers, Skorzeny's 150 Brigade
for the Japanese - Special Naval Landing Forces

Units would be faster than "leg" infantry and have certain combat modifiers that could enhance the abilities of any unit stacked with them.

You end up having the same problem as tank divisions equipped with Tigers. Everyone wants them in the game, but they are just not realistically modelled in a division scale stategic wargame. What could be done is include them in the technology tree, and have them provide bonus' to specific units, such as river attacks, shore attacks, etc., representing small units deployed to assist larger formations. You wouldn't have actual separate units, but rather existing units would be improved.
 

nachinus

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Semi-Lobster said:
Spain should have the interwar armoured car. The Bilbao Armored Car which where used by the Guardia de Asaltos. These where motorized shock troops, armed with pistols, machine guns, rifles, mortars, and armored cars. Organized into 14 assault groups (18 in 1934) each had 3 companies supported by a specialist company. These where formed in 1932.

I thought i added them into 0.7 spanish starting techs... maybe i only dreamt it? :confused:

EDIT: Oh! now i remember, i didn't add them because that tech has 12,7 MGs (air) as prereq, and AFAIK Spain didn't produce or had any of such MGs in the 30s until Italy intervened in SCW, but i'm not 100% sure. I didn't know whether to add it without the prereq or add the prereq too even if i suspected it was unhistorical...I left it for further consideration later... and i completely forgot about it :D
 
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Der Bismarck

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McNaughton said:
You end up having the same problem as tank divisions equipped with Tigers. Everyone wants them in the game, but they are just not realistically modelled in a division scale stategic wargame. What could be done is include them in the technology tree, and have them provide bonus' to specific units, such as river attacks, shore attacks, etc., representing small units deployed to assist larger formations. You wouldn't have actual separate units, but rather existing units would be improved.

Perhaps in HOI2 you can have the option of building and attaching such units to divisions, something like the art, a/t, aa, brigades now.

Perhaps the attachments could be assigned as needed.
 

Semi-Lobster

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nachinus said:
I thought i added them into 0.7 spanish starting techs... maybe i only dreamt it? :confused:

EDIT: Oh! now i remember, i didn't add them because that tech has 12,7 MGs (air) as prereq, and AFAIK Spain didn't produce or had any of such MGs in the 30s until Italy intervened in SCW, but i'm not 100% sure. I didn't know whether to add it without the prereq or add the prereq too even if i suspected it was unhistorical...I left it for further consideration later... and i completely forgot about it :D

I find it hard to believe that a European country would be completely without MG's! Are you sure they didn't have any? Also why is the Verdeja a tank model? Wasn't it a SP gun armed with a 45 or 75mm gun?
 

Semi-Lobster

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Can river monitors be abstracted in HoI? I was thinking about this after looking through some Soviet river monitors, some very heavily armed ships where used in this role and I was wondering of river defence can be modified with monitor techs

I brought this up in the naval thread but MateDow isn't really sure about river defence modifyers. Could this be implemented in the game?
 

JRaup

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Semi-Lobster said:
I brought this up in the naval thread but MateDow isn't really sure about river defence modifyers. Could this be implemented in the game?

I think river crossings are tough enough as is, with out giving any more bonuses to defenders. I think such things are already accounted for in some manner in the current riverine assault penalties.
 

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JRaup said:
I think river crossings are tough enough as is, with out giving any more bonuses to defenders. I think such things are already accounted for in some manner in the current riverine assault penalties.

So we're supposed to assume everybody has 300 - 900t river monitors with +100mm guns? :confused: I'm not going to get into the 'rivers are too hard to get through' problem a lot of people are talking about
 
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JRaup

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Semi-Lobster said:
So we're supposed to assume everybody has 300 - 900t river monitors with +100mm guns?


No, but the way that river crossings, especially contested ones, are handled, adding in more bonises for the defenders will make them go from just real bloody to nearly impossible. Also, other than some instances in teh Soviet Union, I don't recall any other situations where such craft were used operationally.
 

Semi-Lobster

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JRaup said:
No, but the way that river crossings, especially contested ones, are handled, adding in more bonises for the defenders will make them go from just real bloody to nearly impossible. Also, other than some instances in teh Soviet Union, I don't recall any other situations where such craft were used operationally.

Soviet saw a lot of action against the Germans, I'm kinda busy right now, I'll give an example later
 

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River monitors

I had a thought about this last time I read the post. Rivers are shown in the game as provinces, as I recall. Has anyone tried stationing a destroyer unit in a river province, from the starting OOB, perhaps ? You would need to add river ports in the province csv as well, I guess, or the units would die from lack of supply eventually, I guess.

If this works, this could simulate your River gunboats, by giving the naval gunfire support bonus to troops in adjacent provinces, hopefully.

Anyone see any problems with this, aside from the horrible prospect of people trying to sail battleships to Moscow or something ?

Tim
 

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Anti-Partisan measures

Another idea I have been looking at is to allow a tech to be researched that partially counteracts some of the partisan effects (if you have a german army of 300+ divisions, that extra 0.2 supply each stacks up). The tech basically reduces the penalties by half, but does take 6 mths or so to research. Additionally, such attacks arent realistic for German divisions everywhere, but (in game) its kinda hard to differentiate between one driving through Germany, and one sitting in Caen as invasion defence.

I also set this tech to allow a new model of militia units - what I would call "Security troops" really. The usual militia units are Home Guard/Volksturm types - young boys, old men, little equipment, etc.. or colonial levees, it seems to me. These Security troops represent things like the German units formed from Soviet POWs, and many of the volunteer units from other occupied areas (eg Anti-Communist volunteers in Yugoslavia). Their equipment tends to be somewhat better - often being the stockpiles of arms and weaponry taken from a defeated enemy, but obviously not up to full Front Line infantry spec. They tend to have little in the way of Artillery, and very little motorisation, but on the other hand, are distinctly better in combat terms than the Volksturm types, I would say - they do at least have halfway decent equipment, and the troops are at least relatively healthy and active.


#1 Security Units
model = {
cost = 4
buildtime = 75
manpower = 7
maxspeed = 5
defaultorganisation = 50
grounddefence = 3
airdefence = 2
softattack = 3
hardattack = 1
airattack = 1
transportweight = 10
supplyconsumption = 1
fuelconsumption = 0
speed_cap_art = 5
speed_cap_eng = 6
speed_cap_at = 5
speed_cap_aa = 5

I based it on the original infantry spec, and cut down a few bits (Hard attack, build time, etc) - be aware that as a Militia unit it gets fewer upgrades.

Any thoughts ? Tim
 

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HistoryMan said:
I had a thought about this last time I read the post. Rivers are shown in the game as provinces, as I recall. Has anyone tried stationing a destroyer unit in a river province, from the starting OOB, perhaps ? You would need to add river ports in the province csv as well, I guess, or the units would die from lack of supply eventually, I guess.

If this works, this could simulate your River gunboats, by giving the naval gunfire support bonus to troops in adjacent provinces, hopefully.

Anyone see any problems with this, aside from the horrible prospect of people trying to sail battleships to Moscow or something ?

Tim

While it might be possible to place a port along a river province it is not possible to move units into a river.

Ghost_dk
 

JRaup

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MadUrb said:
Can you place a naval unit in a river by using an event command then? Not move one there.


I don't think so. Try bombing a river "province". You will find that it is "out of range" for almost all air units, even if stationed in an adjoining province. rivers are there as obstacles mainly, though I believe you can send a convoy along a river, but I'm not 100% sure of that.
 

JRaup

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HistoryMan said:
Hmm.. could you edit the "Rivers" to be "Oceans" ? (In province.csv) It might cause more problems than it solves, of course, but... anyone tried it ?

Tim

You might be able to, but I don't think it would be a good idea really. The impact on combat alone would make it unfeasible, as units wouldn't be able to cross any rivers at all. Not to mention the effect on teh tech trees...
 

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Returning you to your usual Programs..

As we seemed to have drifted off course a bit, onto rivers ! Can I ask again for comments reagrding my earlier post about "New Model Militia" (almost sounds Cromwellian!) and the anti-partisan tech ?

Tim