Sounds great! Currently I'm editing models.csv for tanks; I'll send it to you when it's done, okay?
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Artillery Tech Tree
Is someone over here going to be doing work with the artillery tech tree to supplement your work with tanks and such? If so, I need some information (or need to reserve some numbers) where it interacts with the naval tech tree. MDow
Is someone over here going to be doing work with the artillery tech tree to supplement your work with tanks and such? If so, I need some information (or need to reserve some numbers) where it interacts with the naval tech tree. MDow
Re: Artillery Tech Tree
Oh, you probably need those for naval guns... Just follow the link in the first post in tread. You will find there MKSheppard tech mod (some time ago he suggested his mod as a base for CORE tech tree) - there are all the techs (including naval ones).
I'm not going to mess with the navy - balancing land units would be enough for me.
Oh, you probably need those for naval guns... Just follow the link in the first post in tread. You will find there MKSheppard tech mod (some time ago he suggested his mod as a base for CORE tech tree) - there are all the techs (including naval ones).
I'm not going to mess with the navy - balancing land units would be enough for me.
Too late
I am already messing with the navy. Here all this time I thought MKSheperd was only interested in tanks.
err, the link on top isn't working. MDow
I am already messing with the navy. Here all this time I thought MKSheperd was only interested in tanks.
err, the link on top isn't working. MDow
Re: Too late
Ok, try this one. And yes, Shep started naval development.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/rcrierie/wargames/HOI/HOI_INDEX.htm
Ok, try this one. And yes, Shep started naval development.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/rcrierie/wargames/HOI/HOI_INDEX.htm
just wanted to say that, be carefull with the costs of things, as far as i know, in previous versions (i do not know the last one) MKShep. modify almost the cost of everything, we should consider what the AI can do with that BEFORE introducing such a GREAT change.
Just a quick thought about the statistics being raised so much by research, such as stated earlier. Have been mulling over the idea that later and more powerful models forces should somehow incorperate electronic techs more or at least include new techs that would allow the prototypes to be researched, instead of just the gears, etc. Getting db up to see exactly what techs are previously needed currently. Just a crazy thought in my crazy head
Originally posted by Generalisimo
just wanted to say that, be carefull with the costs of things, as far as i know, in previous versions (i do not know the last one) MKShep. modify almost the cost of everything, we should consider what the AI can do with that BEFORE introducing such a GREAT change.
For now (in tests) it goes pretty smooth - SOV got their 200 divis, so GER, USA and ENG are about half of that...
I also got an idea how to balance a bit research effort. Availability of some techs in original HoI is dependand on discoveries from it's own tech tree and in very few cases, from other (example - nylon (industry) -> Paratroopers (Heavy Aircraft). IMO, second case could be used more times, especially when it comes to mayor improvements in some weapon systems.
Example - new artillery tech 20mm guns (for planes) should need Pre war combat testing (Air Doctrine level) or even higher doctrine to become available. Historically only after Spanish Civil War it become obvious, that fighters need better guns to be able to shoot down new generation of bombers.
I'm still affraid though, how to ensure similar to historical development of AI controlled countries and block (at least a bit) "power players" from getting Tigers in 1940.
Originally posted by Maximusx
Just a quick thought about the statistics being raised so much by research, such as stated earlier. Have been mulling over the idea that later and more powerful models forces should somehow incorperate electronic techs more or at least include new techs that would allow the prototypes to be researched, instead of just the gears, etc. Getting db up to see exactly what techs are previously needed currently. Just a crazy thought in my crazy head
It's actually good idea, but for now I will try to enhance WWII tree. As MKSheppard's tree closing techs are close to the historical 1953-1956 techs, it nicely fits the earlier discussed time limit of the CORE mod.
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Is it worthwhile creating an "At War" event that creates a "Prioritise Research" tech based on the following.
1. Research, for weapons particularly, in times of peace is slower than during war. Therefore double the inital research time for all techs.
2. Create a "Prioritise Research" tech, that is initially inactive and unresearchable. No country would initally have this tech.
3. Create an event which gives the "Prioritise Research" tech to any country that goes to war. For a major country, this event would only activate when at war with another major country.
4. This tech would reduce all research times by 50%
5. If the country reverts to peace, deactivate the tech.
I see two potential problems with this. First of all, since the time to research a tech will vary substantially, then so will the total cost to create it, ie it will become significantly cheaper during war to conduct research.
Information I have seen suggests that the reverse should be true, that research is actually more expensive during war.
I could argue though that this perhaps is countered by an increase in industrial efficiency during war which is not well represented currently in HoI.
The other problem is with countries "sharing" the tech with countries that are not at war. I don't know if there is a feasible way around this.
This may not be explained as well as I would like, but I hope you get my meaning.
1. Research, for weapons particularly, in times of peace is slower than during war. Therefore double the inital research time for all techs.
2. Create a "Prioritise Research" tech, that is initially inactive and unresearchable. No country would initally have this tech.
3. Create an event which gives the "Prioritise Research" tech to any country that goes to war. For a major country, this event would only activate when at war with another major country.
4. This tech would reduce all research times by 50%
5. If the country reverts to peace, deactivate the tech.
I see two potential problems with this. First of all, since the time to research a tech will vary substantially, then so will the total cost to create it, ie it will become significantly cheaper during war to conduct research.
Information I have seen suggests that the reverse should be true, that research is actually more expensive during war.
I could argue though that this perhaps is countered by an increase in industrial efficiency during war which is not well represented currently in HoI.
The other problem is with countries "sharing" the tech with countries that are not at war. I don't know if there is a feasible way around this.
This may not be explained as well as I would like, but I hope you get my meaning.
One tech reducing time of R&D and second, opposite one. Hmmm... But how make it "inactive and unresearchable"?
Maybe extremely long time of development (10 years) and very low cost (1 IC) could do that...
But it's rather extreme solution - human players are good at research during the war anyway. But as a "ai = yes" event... Hmmm, I would have to test it.
Well, you could give all endtechs as a priority for techs to be researched... Anyway; time for research needs to go up significantly; if you would add this endtech to the game I'd suggest doubling time for ALL technologies.
Impossible - if I do that, then I would have to give AI's all those techs WITH "hidden" tech in order to make it work.
About longer times - I prefer more links between technologies. It will block too fast progress on one field of warfare and not hurt AI this much. The problem with too fast tech advance is partially problem of "out-of-air" techs (for example, in 1938 no one in Germany expected, that they will need long barrel medium tank - war experience created this need). So if we add some doctrines as a must before development of some modern equipment, it could help.
Oh, and you will have to wait for beta version of tech mod - yesterday I missmatched something in game's database and I still try to fix it.
that happened to me a lot of times...Originally posted by Copper Nicus
Oh, and you will have to wait for beta version of tech mod - yesterday I missmatched something in game's database and I still try to fix it.
i hate those "testing phases"...
I totally agree, IMHO your idea of making more links between techs and doctrines seems not only reasonable, but historical as well. It has another advantage, we don´t have to mess with costs and buildtimes, that would be more difficult to balance.
Hmmm, maybe I should split the work on two parts:
1) Linking various techs in standard tech tree to provide more historical development (it would include some minor changes in starting techs to keep game balanced) - it could be ready even in next week (for 0.2).
2) Mayor rewrite of tech tree based on MKSheppard's work, also including correcting inc and AI files. It would take much more time and some serious testing.
I currently work on the second part, but it would take a while - would like to include historical equipment at the start (French B1 heavy tanks for example - they started production at the end of 1935) and it would take a lot of work to balance something like that.
1) Linking various techs in standard tech tree to provide more historical development (it would include some minor changes in starting techs to keep game balanced) - it could be ready even in next week (for 0.2).
2) Mayor rewrite of tech tree based on MKSheppard's work, also including correcting inc and AI files. It would take much more time and some serious testing.
I currently work on the second part, but it would take a while - would like to include historical equipment at the start (French B1 heavy tanks for example
- they started production at the end of 1935) and it would take a lot of work to balance something like that.
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A thing I noticed when editing the models.csv file for tanks: if you look carefully in panzer.txt you will see "pre-war tank" with number 0 and "early war tank(MG)" with number 1. However when you check in the models.csv file you will see NO names for this "pre-war tank"(number 0) ; the Neubaufahrzeug, T27 and all the other pre-war tanks are actually "early tanks (MG)" (number 1). So there is one unused tag without names in the files; maybe you can use it somehow. I also did models.csv for tanks but it will be of no use when you change them in the tech mod. For example I think the Tiger should be improved heavy and the KV-1 basic heavy; the T-35 is more something pre-war. So Copper Nicus, could you please mail me the tech changes you did when you are finished? I could then work on the models.csv accordingly.
As a base I work on MKSheppard Tech Mod v. 4i (see link below) and it is very different from HoI standard tech tree.
There, category Heavy Tanks (French B1, Soviet T-35) is part of Basic Tanks TechLevel, and both Tiger I and KW-1 are put into Improved Tank category (but their statistics are quite different).
http://www.roadtowar.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=118
Please check this tree and try to test it a bit. I stiil got problems with game base and I don't want to send you damaged files. After Easter, ok?