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Tanks - evacuation vehicle

New idea for late war tech in tank tree...

application = { # Heavy evacuation vehicle
id = XXXX
name = "Heavy evacuation vehicle"
desc = "After the first period of war it became obvious, that traditional methods of repairs not suit new, fast style of warfare. In battles most of the tanks were not destroyed, but damaged. Vehicles that were knocked off or recieved damage beyond their own ability to repair had to wait for repair teams, thus slowing the advance. The answer for that problem was the heavy evacuation vehicle, able to remove damaged tank right from the battlefield even uder enemy fire and repair it right on the front line. Historically those vehicles were modifications of standard medium and heavy tanks, like M4 Sherman, Cromwell or Churchill."

required = { 1305 2407 11400 } # Bulldozer, Imp. Medium prot., Late War Experience
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = max_organization which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 3 }
command = { type = air_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }

}
}
 

JRaup

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Re: Tanks - evacuation vehicle

Originally posted by Copper Nicus
New idea for late war tech in tank tree...

application = { # Heavy evacuation vehicle
id = XXXX
name = "Heavy evacuation vehicle"
desc = "After the first period of war it became obvious, that traditional methods of repairs not suit new, fast style of warfare. In battles most of the tanks were not destroyed, but damaged. Vehicles that were knocked off or recieved damage beyond their own ability to repair had to wait for repair teams, thus slowing the advance. The answer for that problem was the heavy evacuation vehicle, able to remove damaged tank right from the battlefield even uder enemy fire and repair it right on the front line. Historically those vehicles were modifications of standard medium and heavy tanks, like M4 Sherman, Cromwell or Churchill."

required = { 1305 2407 11400 } # Bulldozer, Imp. Medium prot., Late War Experience
chance = 90
cost = 12
time = 90
neg_offset = 20
pos_offset = 40

effects = {
command = { type = max_organization which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 3 }
command = { type = air_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }
command = { type = ground_defense which = armor when = on_upgrade value = 1 }

}
}

This should also have the engineering tanks as a pre-requisite. And maybe a doctrine as well should be created: "Battlefield Recovery".
 

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Well, from what i can tell, any machine gun armed tank, also had a cannon mounted variant..

Also. i noticed this today..

If the US researches the Basic Medium tank 70mm short, you don't end up with a Lee or sherman with a 70mm short gun, you get a MG armed lee...i didn't realize this untill i built 12 of them , and noticed "hey! they have 1 hard attack!"
 

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Originally posted by Twisted_Mentat
Well, from what i can tell, any machine gun armed tank, also had a cannon mounted variant..

Also. i noticed this today..

If the US researches the Basic Medium tank 70mm short, you don't end up with a Lee or sherman with a 70mm short gun, you get a MG armed lee...i didn't realize this untill i built 12 of them , and noticed "hey! they have 1 hard attack!"


Vickers didn't... But as I said MG will not lock other tanks in the next version of game. Reasons behind deactivations are AI - if you want to see competitive AI you have to sacrifice some freedom of models choice - more on that matter you can read in above posts.

About wrong models - it's a bug in CORE 0.52 - go to the main thread and download the hotfix, that should help.
 

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Originally posted by Twisted_Mentat
If the US researches the Basic Medium tank 70mm short, you don't end up with a Lee or sherman with a 70mm short gun, you get a MG armed lee...i didn't realize this untill i built 12 of them , and noticed "hey! they have 1 hard attack!"


Get the hotfixes (link in my sig).
 

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Originally posted by Kevin Mc Carthy
As Germany in Core 0.52 & HOI 1.05b:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1940-04-02 : 22:00 May 3, 1940 : Romania have shared 'Political Control over Army (SOV only)' with us.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have the save game file also.

Adding:

required = { 11507 } # added to fix bug

to application Political Control over Army, id = 11507

fixes this.

There needs to be better documentation of deactivation techs.
 

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Originally posted by Kevin Mc Carthy
Adding:

required = { 11507 } # added to fix bug

to application Political Control over Army, id = 11507

fixes this.

There needs to be better documentation of deactivation techs.

In 0.6 all the non-researchable techs will be better named and deactivated from the country file (inc) level. During the preparing of 04 and 0.5 we simply didn't know about this method.
 

JRaup

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Originally posted by Copper Nicus
In 0.6 all the non-researchable techs will be better named and deactivated from the country file (inc) level. During the preparing of 04 and 0.5 we simply didn't know about this method.

Will this also prevent those nation-specific techs from being acquired by "stealing" them? In my last game as US, I got the Bushido Codex tech through the "steal technology" event. Pretty entertaining really, and even fit, as I had been retaking NatChi after the Kiri Project.
 

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Originally posted by JRaup
Will this also prevent those nation-specific techs from being acquired by "stealing" them? In my last game as US, I got the Bushido Codex tech through the "steal technology" event. Pretty entertaining really, and even fit, as I had been retaking NatChi after the Kiri Project.

The answer is - yes. :D

This steal tech event was really annoing though...
 
Last edited:

JRaup

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Originally posted by Copper Nicus
The answer is - yes. :D

This steal tech event was really annoing though...

Ah well. ;) I will really miss those American Kamikaze pilots. :D
 

nachinus

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I have the impression that combats now are pretty faster. Honestly i dont know if its a CORE or vanilla HoIs issue, becasue i dont play vanilla hoi since CORE 0.3 was released, so i cant compare. The fact is that my 2 last attacks lasted only 10 hours.

In 10 hours of combat the enemy divs retreated an my units took control of a whole province. A bit too fast, IMO. I had a 4 to 1 advantage in divs number more or less in both attacks, and i used some air support, but not massively (3 or 4 units bombing). The tech level should be more or less equal as im UK and the defender was GER. Both their and my units were at max org.

IMO, a combat of HoIs dimension should not last less than 20-24 hours... Its about taking a whole province, you know.. several towns, cities and villages and thousands of kilometers of front. I dont know if its because ground-ground attack, or air-grond attack are overpowered, or if theres not enough defence bonuses in the tech tree to compensate the obiquous attack bonuses or what. Maybe its only my impression, but i really think that battles should last a bit more.
 

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Originally posted by nachinus
I have the impression that combats now are pretty faster. Honestly i dont know if its a CORE or vanilla HoIs issue, becasue i dont play vanilla hoi since CORE 0.3 was released, so i cant compare. The fact is that my 2 last attacks lasted only 10 hours.

In 10 hours of combat the enemy divs retreated an my units took control of a whole province. A bit too fast, IMO. I had a 4 to 1 advantage in divs number more or less in both attacks, and i used some air support, but not massively (3 or 4 units bombing). The tech level should be more or less equal as im UK and the defender was GER. Both their and my units were at max org.

IMO, a combat of HoIs dimension should not last less than 20-24 hours... Its about taking a whole province, you know.. several towns, cities and villages and thousands of kilometers of front. I dont know if its because ground-ground attack, or air-grond attack are overpowered, or if theres not enough defence bonuses in the tech tree to compensate the obiquous attack bonuses or what. Maybe its only my impression, but i really think that battles should last a bit more.

Can't agree. So far I play 0.4 (but it got the same system as 0.5) and also watch AI vs AI battles. Even late war battles can easy take more than a week (experience from US invasion on Iberia in 1943). And in the early war I see Germans fighting in Belgium and Holland for similar time. Add to that time of reaching position... On the clear terrain it's usually faster, but river, moutains, shore could make battle really long.

If the battle is too short, we can experimentally make defence of all units doubled + double all defence bonuses from techs. But that will probably totally unbalance game - we should change speeds, mapower costs (low casualties) and this sort of stuff...
 

nachinus

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Originally posted by Copper Nicus
Can't agree. So far I play 0.4 (but it got the same system as 0.5) and also watch AI vs AI battles. Even late war battles can easy take more than a week (experience from US invasion on Iberia in 1943). And in the early war I see Germans fighting in Belgium and Holland for similar time. Add to that time of reaching position... On the clear terrain it's usually faster, but river, moutains, shore could make battle really long.

If the battle is too short, we can experimentally make defence of all units doubled + double all defence bonuses from techs. But that will probably totally unbalance game - we should change speeds, mapower costs (low casualties) and this sort of stuff...

OK, youre the expert on this. I only expressed an impression. As i said i didnt test it comparing with vanilla Hoi. The only real fact i have is that my operation overlord landings took only 10 hours to capture the beachhead provs. i saw a vertiginous drop of GER units org and force strenght and voila, Overlord succesful ;) .
 

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Originally posted by nachinus
OK, youre the expert on this. I only expressed an impression. As i said i didnt test it comparing with vanilla Hoi. The only real fact i have is that my operation overlord landings took only 10 hours to capture the beachhead provs. i saw a vertiginous drop of GER units org and force strenght and voila, Overlord succesful ;) .

Yeah, I work on that - apparently CORE Germans are not the ones we know from the History Channel... ;)

In next release I developed Hard CORE events a bit - now Germans got better R&D, organisation AND develop nuclear weapons. Not too fast, but in 1945 might have a bomb... :D
 

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Originally posted by Copper Nicus
Yeah, I work on that - apparently CORE Germans are not the ones we know from the History Channel... ;)

In next release I developed Hard CORE events a bit - now Germans got better R&D, organisation AND develop nuclear weapons. Not too fast, but in 1945 might have a bomb... :D

:eek: ...Scary...

Well, i dont like nuclear bombs in hoi, but im sure Hitler would be happy with them ;) . Maybe 1945 is a little premature?
 

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better trained troops

Yes, I realize I can simply research more doctrines. But then again, you could use that argument against the germans as well. If they are going to be able to produce elite divisions; it is unrealistic to say that nobody else can.

- MVSN
 

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Originally posted by nachinus
:eek: ...Scary...

Well, i dont like nuclear bombs in hoi, but im sure Hitler would be happy with them ;) . Maybe 1945 is a little premature?

Hmmm, they "might" do this, if they:

1) win with USSR,
2) get most of their IC potential. :D

In test games I've seen German first nuke around 1946 (they did win war with Soviets, but were very close...).
 

nachinus

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Ive made a bit more rehearsal about combat. You were right Copper, land combat works fine, battle lengths are fine and loses ratio is fine too. What seems to unbalance all is air support.

I already thought that air support was pretty strong in vanilla HoI 1.05, but it was after seeing my troops bombed by 10 air units stacks, so it was reasonable. ;) But ive seen that with only 4 air units (2 basic tacbombers and 2 basic multrole fighters) you can support an attack to a 2 or 3 units enemy stack and reduce in a single air strike (of course in plains, in mountain they are noot that good) their org from 70-80 to 10-20!!!. Only with 2 bombers and 2 fighterbombers... basic all of them!.

AS i said in my previous post, there years since i last played vanilla HoI, so i really cant compare very good, but maybe the Techmod has altered some statistics in planes. I found that my basic multirole fighters have 4 tacattack, while tacbombers have 5. Only 1 point difference. I recall that when i started to develop those MRF they had very little tacattack, but i made them because i thought it was a good idea to use them for scorting tacbombers as they would contribute a little to the bombing... but now they are nearly as effective as my bombers!.

I suppose ive developed techs that increased their air-land lethality. I recall developing 20+mm cannons, and i think that gave tacattack bonus, im not sure.

Anyway, the cause of 10 hours or less battle length is air support, 100% sure. Maybe we should judge if this is overpowered or not.

Sorry about being so vague about techs and so, but im not having very much time to play and test at home and usually i write to the forums from the work, so i cant check the tech tree before posting. :(